Lars is a tube electronics designer I respect very much. He told me he spent 4 years of work on the type 2 300B push pull amplifier. In the age of Internet, it is impossible to comprehend the duration of work could span such a long time. This is an attitude and the result is in the listening. His works are understated.
He is now 68 years old spending 2 days on consultancy work on railway signal processing system. He is an expert in this field all of his life. The rest of the time, he spends on audio development. His works are very solid. Everything is backed by facts and principles. The design philosophy is holistic instead of focusing solely on one single parameter even though they could be easier for consumers to pickup.
He told me the Monica preamp is very complicated of work that goes beyond his original projection. I continue to admire the Sweden school of thought on tube electronics
The Vetere room is another one that surprised everyone. The turntable and reference arm are just simply placed on the hotel desk. All the electronics are FM acoustics lower end model driving a pair of PMC speakers. Both Master Chik and Uncle Kan endorsed this room highly.
Thank you Jlam and PT for the arrangement. We had great fun in the Munich trip.
Wagner was one of bright spots in the show. It is not the best speakers but it is only second to Universe and Gobel in my view.
Wagner is a very high speed speakers for both treble and bass. This is made possible by the front loaded horns. It has also got a very good spreading of sound. Wagner filled up the entire room with music. When I closed my eye, I really can't imagine that I was listening only to a "little" speakers. Wagner just have all the attributes and performance of what mega speakers should have.
After playing Wagner in standalone mode, Ralph connected the system with the Universe subwoofer. I was stunned with this combination. I would say for people just coming in the room, they might just think Universe was playing. Though I was stunned with Wagner and subwoofer, the bass from Wagner itself is already in the first class and is more than enough for typical listening area, especially in Hong Kong.
In fact the whole visiting team endorsed the outstanding performance of Wagner.
I ended up with the toasting with Ralph for celebrating my purchase.
It is good to know that you got a pair of so nice speakers.
Is Wagner made of the same material as Liszt?
Other than the larger amount of bass that the subwoofer can give, does adding a subwoofer also give you different feeling of bass compared to Wagner standalone?
Hi Robbie, it is the same size and look as Chopin but the horn, the cabinet material and the driver are completely different. The horn is exactly the same material as Carmen and Lizst while the driver quality is TAD2002. I was told that Wagner is adapting the technology of gamma, not even that of Brahms. Adding sub-woofer of Universe definitely gave me different feelings but I don't think I need a subwoofer for home listening. The bass energy and speed of Wagner is already enough for the size of the Munich room.
I am writing in response to an article written by someone from the website of www.monoandstereo.com concerning the industry standard of the Munich Show (MOC) 2015. I was there for 2 days. The exhibition was successful probably from the perspective of ever increasing number of visitors. But in terms of sound quality of most rooms, they were sub-standard and could not associate with the “Hi End” label at all. The playback standard over at the Marriot Hotel in general is better than those at the MoC. I am from the recording industry and far from qualified as an audiophile because I have no money for such expensive toys.
Mr whoever on monoandstereo singles out that the Magico speakers consistently disappointed in MOC. It sucked last year too putting the blame on room acoustics and inadequate setup time. I do not buy such excuses. The project M room - music playing through them is dead, very dead. Music was largely trapped inside those big metal enclosures. The Q7 in the solution room was slightly better but exhibited the same phenomenon of "sound imprisonment". To be fair, such phenomenon was also observed in the Estelon Extreme Room. That made me begin to suspect the root of the problems could well be amplification because these rooms were driven by the same amplifiers - Soulution 700 series. (Q7, Extreme Estelon) and the Constellation big amps (Project M). There was chronic absence of harmonics decay in these rooms. Transients were nullified, and the bass were constipated. The sound is constrained, tight, forward and dead. The Raidho room was good if they were playing the D1 - their smallest speakers. When they changed to the flagship, the amps could not drive it well. But I did hear the potential of the big Raidho if they have the right amplifier. In another room where a pair of CH amplifiers was driving a pair of Wilson Benesch 2-way monitor speakers in spite of two active subwoofers on both channels, I really could not feel the energy from the playback of both digital and vinyl. The energy could not really fill the room. I suspect it is the amplifier again.
The Wilson Alexia speakers on the other hand driven by the small Nagra amplifiers were performing exceptional well. The Marten Coltrane 3 speakers were quite lively driven by some unknown amplifiers (MSB?). It was much better than their flagship speakers driven by Dartzeel flagship amp last year in the same room. My biggest surprise was that an unknown tube amplifier manufacturer from Serbia completely tamed a big pair of Kharma Exquisite. To compare, those two big Orpheus mono amplifiers were also driving a pair of Kharma speakers (lower model) but sounded nowhere close to the Serbia tube amp driving the big kharma. The room was untreated and had a big glass wall from behind.
This little analytic of mine suggests the matching of the amplifier and the speakers is the culprit of most big brand rooms in MOC. The decision is mostly made by "price matching". The speakers priced at more than USD120,000 must mate with expensive amplifiers to lure Asian consumers, or particularly Chinese consumers.
In this case, I would blame the amplifiers more because for what they are charging in price with their claimed specifications, they did not perform in reality consistently across the globe in big shows year after year. And why would Magico make a speakers that are so difficult to drive is another question in my mind. Professional pictures showing milling process out of solid aluminum, I was told by industry insider, is now the standard marketing strategy because the Chinese consumers justify their purchases by weight of the material more than the sound quality. I was also told that the sales of top Magico model speakers in Asia are very good. And I wonder what amplifier will work because the most expensive did not perform almost under all public occasions.
I come from the recording industry and am NOT a believer of TUBE electronics. Nevertheless, I also went to the Cessaro room. To my surprises, they were much better than last year. Again, my observation suggests that amplifiers matter tremendously. Last year they were using Tron, and it really sucked until I attended the AE show last year to redeem the reputation of the speakers. I do not know whoever built those big tube amplifiers, but the sound field is very open and dynamic is good, though I expect more refinement and details at both frequency ends. Sound is still a bit too tight to my ears and I believe they need more run in. The smaller horn speakers that they played after 5pm on the first day were quite a nice surprise given the scale and presence of the sonic landscape far exceeding its physical footprint.
The german speakers with ipad like flat drivers were very good. The sound field is palpable at the right spot set up by the manufacturer. Everything is right because of complete absence of phase error as the flat driver is a wide band unit covering from 180hz to over 35,000hz. Together with the sub woofer tower, the ipad-like speakers are driven by 3 big analog domain amplifiers (1000 watt per channel). But I would expect more energy in the room and more punch and attack. SPL is adequate though I would prefer more given the price tag. I suspect the efficiency of these speakers is fairly low. Regardless of price, this room stood out to my ears. When you have perfect phase over a wide band, many problems are gone automatically. But after I knew the price of the whole system, I left the room immediately.
Another room featuring Tidal all diamond speakers with price tag a little bit under EUR200,000 driven by mega size power amplifier was not bad if we do not think from the price perspective. The diamond mid range was clean and free of those ceramic mechanical resonances like before. Resolution is very high. Maybe the room was too many people, the treble lacked the body and extension proclaims by diamond tweeter. Again, I was not entirely happy with the amplifier. The soundfield was quite open but the bass is not tuneful enough. I do not feel the easiness of bass rendition.
The conclusion of MOC 2015 is SUBSTANDARD. It is either audiophiles nowadays are deaf or manufacturers think Asian consumers are all dumb. Most amplifiers seriously suck. The most expensive are usually the worst performer. I cannot isolate speakers because evaluation of speakers must be taken into the account of the right amplifiers. If any manufacturer is reading this, I hope you can improve next year – the culprit in my opinion is that most amplifiers really suck!
Comments
He is now 68 years old spending 2 days on consultancy work on railway signal processing system. He is an expert in this field all of his life. The rest of the time, he spends on audio development. His works are very solid. Everything is backed by facts and principles. The design philosophy is holistic instead of focusing solely on one single parameter even though they could be easier for consumers to pickup.
He told me the Monica preamp is very complicated of work that goes beyond his original projection. I continue to admire the Sweden school of thought on tube electronics
Apart from silver grey, what colour else for Wagner?
Wagner was one of bright spots in the show. It is not the best speakers but it is only second to Universe and Gobel in my view.
Wagner is a very high speed speakers for both treble and bass. This is made possible by the front loaded horns. It has also got a very good spreading of sound. Wagner filled up the entire room with music. When I closed my eye, I really can't imagine that I was listening only to a "little" speakers. Wagner just have all the attributes and performance of what mega speakers should have.
After playing Wagner in standalone mode, Ralph connected the system with the Universe subwoofer. I was stunned with this combination. I would say for people just coming in the room, they might just think Universe was playing. Though I was stunned with Wagner and subwoofer, the bass from Wagner itself is already in the first class and is more than enough for typical listening area, especially in Hong Kong.
In fact the whole visiting team endorsed the outstanding performance of Wagner.
I ended up with the toasting with Ralph for celebrating my purchase.
It is good to know that you got a pair of so nice speakers.
Is Wagner made of the same material as Liszt?
Other than the larger amount of bass that the subwoofer can give, does adding a subwoofer also give you different feeling of bass compared to Wagner standalone?
I am writing in response to an article written by someone from the website of www.monoandstereo.com concerning the industry standard of the Munich Show (MOC) 2015. I was there for 2 days. The exhibition was successful probably from the perspective of ever increasing number of visitors. But in terms of sound quality of most rooms, they were sub-standard and could not associate with the “Hi End” label at all. The playback standard over at the Marriot Hotel in general is better than those at the MoC. I am from the recording industry and far from qualified as an audiophile because I have no money for such expensive toys.
Mr whoever on monoandstereo singles out that the Magico speakers consistently disappointed in MOC. It sucked last year too putting the blame on room acoustics and inadequate setup time. I do not buy such excuses. The project M room - music playing through them is dead, very dead. Music was largely trapped inside those big metal enclosures. The Q7 in the solution room was slightly better but exhibited the same phenomenon of "sound imprisonment". To be fair, such phenomenon was also observed in the Estelon Extreme Room. That made me begin to suspect the root of the problems could well be amplification because these rooms were driven by the same amplifiers - Soulution 700 series. (Q7, Extreme Estelon) and the Constellation big amps (Project M). There was chronic absence of harmonics decay in these rooms. Transients were nullified, and the bass were constipated. The sound is constrained, tight, forward and dead. The Raidho room was good if they were playing the D1 - their smallest speakers. When they changed to the flagship, the amps could not drive it well. But I did hear the potential of the big Raidho if they have the right amplifier. In another room where a pair of CH amplifiers was driving a pair of Wilson Benesch 2-way monitor speakers in spite of two active subwoofers on both channels, I really could not feel the energy from the playback of both digital and vinyl. The energy could not really fill the room. I suspect it is the amplifier again.
The Wilson Alexia speakers on the other hand driven by the small Nagra amplifiers were performing exceptional well. The Marten Coltrane 3 speakers were quite lively driven by some unknown amplifiers (MSB?). It was much better than their flagship speakers driven by Dartzeel flagship amp last year in the same room. My biggest surprise was that an unknown tube amplifier manufacturer from Serbia completely tamed a big pair of Kharma Exquisite. To compare, those two big Orpheus mono amplifiers were also driving a pair of Kharma speakers (lower model) but sounded nowhere close to the Serbia tube amp driving the big kharma. The room was untreated and had a big glass wall from behind.
This little analytic of mine suggests the matching of the amplifier and the speakers is the culprit of most big brand rooms in MOC. The decision is mostly made by "price matching". The speakers priced at more than USD120,000 must mate with expensive amplifiers to lure Asian consumers, or particularly Chinese consumers.
In this case, I would blame the amplifiers more because for what they are charging in price with their claimed specifications, they did not perform in reality consistently across the globe in big shows year after year. And why would Magico make a speakers that are so difficult to drive is another question in my mind. Professional pictures showing milling process out of solid aluminum, I was told by industry insider, is now the standard marketing strategy because the Chinese consumers justify their purchases by weight of the material more than the sound quality. I was also told that the sales of top Magico model speakers in Asia are very good. And I wonder what amplifier will work because the most expensive did not perform almost under all public occasions.
I come from the recording industry and am NOT a believer of TUBE electronics. Nevertheless, I also went to the Cessaro room. To my surprises, they were much better than last year. Again, my observation suggests that amplifiers matter tremendously. Last year they were using Tron, and it really sucked until I attended the AE show last year to redeem the reputation of the speakers. I do not know whoever built those big tube amplifiers, but the sound field is very open and dynamic is good, though I expect more refinement and details at both frequency ends. Sound is still a bit too tight to my ears and I believe they need more run in. The smaller horn speakers that they played after 5pm on the first day were quite a nice surprise given the scale and presence of the sonic landscape far exceeding its physical footprint.
The german speakers with ipad like flat drivers were very good. The sound field is palpable at the right spot set up by the manufacturer. Everything is right because of complete absence of phase error as the flat driver is a wide band unit covering from 180hz to over 35,000hz. Together with the sub woofer tower, the ipad-like speakers are driven by 3 big analog domain amplifiers (1000 watt per channel). But I would expect more energy in the room and more punch and attack. SPL is adequate though I would prefer more given the price tag. I suspect the efficiency of these speakers is fairly low. Regardless of price, this room stood out to my ears. When you have perfect phase over a wide band, many problems are gone automatically. But after I knew the price of the whole system, I left the room immediately.
Another room featuring Tidal all diamond speakers with price tag a little bit under EUR200,000 driven by mega size power amplifier was not bad if we do not think from the price perspective. The diamond mid range was clean and free of those ceramic mechanical resonances like before. Resolution is very high. Maybe the room was too many people, the treble lacked the body and extension proclaims by diamond tweeter. Again, I was not entirely happy with the amplifier. The soundfield was quite open but the bass is not tuneful enough. I do not feel the easiness of bass rendition.
The conclusion of MOC 2015 is SUBSTANDARD. It is either audiophiles nowadays are deaf or manufacturers think Asian consumers are all dumb. Most amplifiers seriously suck. The most expensive are usually the worst performer. I cannot isolate speakers because evaluation of speakers must be taken into the account of the right amplifiers. If any manufacturer is reading this, I hope you can improve next year – the culprit in my opinion is that most amplifiers really suck!
我在鋪玩了Cesssro蕭邦前後三年多，對佢瞭如指掌，玩到盡。我估計不到Wagner超越佢幾條街，方知用新物料放了隻Gamma用的Horn咀進步如斯巨大，其實玩傳統喇叭的朋友真係要聴下。
Albert, 有型！