I agree. But can you try to relocate the speakers to the living room to allow more breathign space? Probably, you can't hear the true potential or not even half of the potential.
I have just ordered a diffuser from PT as suggested by Uncle Raymond. I love to follow Jeff Big Brother’s suggestion too but at this stage my baby spends quite a lot of time in the living room.
Skyline is probably relatively less popular among the AE community. I learned about it when I common buddy of me and PT said, “A small silver box in PT’s place sounds very nice in driving the then Cessaro Alpha horn”. I know that this fellow is very tough on the music reproduction and is hard to satisfy. However, I knew that my buddy mainly listen to western opera and orchestra. When I told PT that my love is hard rock, he told me that the emotionally involving Cessaro horn driven by Skyline will fit perfectly to my musical tastes. I was a little worried as PT mainly use Skyline-Cessaro Horn for classical music.
After a few days of listening, I feel that the Skyline-Chopin combo is well suited for lovers of hard rock music like me. First of all, the system gives me very realistic vocal reproduction, as mentioned by PT last round when we play Ken Hirai’s great recording known as “Ken’s Bar” (of course, the recently released Ken’s Bar #2 is also great). Secondly, the system can deliver the transient attacks, fast dynamics as well as the passion of rock music in a seamless way across the frequency range of most rock music. I haven’t listened to the music of Beyond for a long time, to me, the only hard rock band ever existed in Hong Kong is Beyond, because I didn’t like to feel sad when I listened to 家駒’s vocal. Yesterday, I finally put in a Beyond CD into the Zero transport as I was really curious to see how Chopin will portray the sound of the best rock band in HK. I first played 遙望, a [中版] rock ballad back in the good old days. I was astonished by the coherency band sounds displayed by Chopin as PT said that he didn’t use this combo for rock music! The system reproduced the collegiate display of vocal and rock instruments between four band members who grew up together. To me, the main difference between pop and band sound is the team spirit and intimacy in music display. Of course, Chopin’s great strength is to passionately reproduce the vocal of the best HK rocker 家駒, my brain was repeatedly reproducing the following verse sung by 家駒 during my entire sleep last night:
Yes, I only love hard/alternative rock while my baby likes classical music. So far, I haven't tried all my rock CDs yet but I can say that Chopin does great reproduction of the following rock bands' sound:
1) Beyond (Hong Kong)
2) Southern All Stars (Japan)
3) Audioslave (USA)
4) Radiohead (UK)
5) King of Leon (USA)
6) Mr. Children (Japan, introduced by Uncle Raymond earlier)
7) Gun N' Roses (USA, e.g., the song "November Rain"
8) The Rolling Stones (UK)
9) Pearl Jam (USA)
10) Alice in the Chain (USA)
11) Artic Monkeys (UK)
12) The Chemical Romance (USA)
13)CREED (USA, e.g., "With my arms open")
14)Stone Temple Pilots (USA)
15) U2 (e.g., "Cedars of Lebanon")
In general, I think that Cessaro Horn is great for rock music. PT said that the direct sound from horn helps to express rock nicely.
Are these audiophile grade recordings? Had you played any Lady Ga Ga on your system? How do you like Shindo preanp in chqrge of the general position in your system? will it be too polite for rock?
No, not all recordings will fit to the audiophile expectations. However, Mr. Children’s CDs (only made in Japan version is available) are of very nice quality. For the US sides, CREED and King of Leon’s recordings also play real well. In the UK side, the qualities of Coldplay and Radiohead’s CDs are good too. For U2, the sound of the latest album, “On the Line of Horizon” is simply great. I haven’t got the CD of Lady GaGa yet, I will buy one later on today.
Yes, you are very sharp on the characteristic of Shindo preamp. I really sensed that it didn’t give me the most dynamic, speed and punch for playing rock when I used Serenity power cord for feeding electricity from wall to Kyoto (the power cord of Shindo preamp is also Serenity as recommended by PT based on my limited bullets). As you suggested, the passage become a little too gentle for most rock music unless I play a new hard rock album from “Chickenfoot” which really made the sound real rock. Afterwards, I changed the wall power cord from Serenity to the ORB Kurenai. Wow, the Shindo Masseto works much better after this change. Maybe, there is certain magic between the Kurenai and Kyoto!! PT told me that Kurenai is a shielded power cable which has different building philosophy compared to Argento’s cables, (of course, I know that Argento Flow or FMR would be best for any DAC or digital components). After using Kurenai as wall cable, the dynamic, transparency, instrument separation and punch of Shindo become acceptable for most rock albums which I played. The most important is that the rock vocal now fills with the necessary energy and passion. In particular, Shindo plays Japanese rock the best! For example, my system plays the vocal of Chage so well in one of the classic hit of Chage and Aska, "终章 (エピローグ)～追想の主题"!! I was really touched by this song. It also played Coldplay's complex passages in a very nice way (with better instrument separation and vocal energy). For Cessaro horn, PT said that Tron Syren with full loaded options will be my ultimate quest but I cannot afford it now as the Shindo has just arrived. Now I think that the Shindo can work quite well after feeding it with Kurenai. Of course, I would change my mind if I will have a chance to listen to Tron Syren.
I also tried to play the computer as source as a source into Chopin as I did that for a long while in a very Near Field environment at my office under relative low volume. I felt OK in the past as my desktop speakers are playing background music for me. However, the computer output cannot match the dynamics, ease and imaging of the Zero CD Drive in my home system when I substituted Zero with a PC notebook connected with a hard drive, then used a highend USB cable to bring the digital signal from computer to a USB-SPDIF converter, finally feeding the digital signal to CC1 clock. I think that the Window Vista based computer has certain limitation in delivering the music sources in the most intact way like CD. At 16-bit and 44.1 Hz, the soundstage became narrower or even collapsed and the imaging was not satisfactory. As my wife suggested, Beyond's vocal became less dynamic and lively (the voice is like compressed) after using computer source despite the use of a very good USB cable. Theoretically, the data stored in the hard drive should be identical to that of CD! So I think that it must the due to the way that the data is delivered from computer to the USB-SPDIF converter. The delivery is controlled by a computer software and then go through the PC's USB port. I strongly believe that the hardware-software system of Vista caused the problem as others reported good music from Apple. Also, the USB-SPDIF converter may not be ideal due to the lack of XLR output for our tailored setting on DAD. The bad sound may also be due to electricity, computer IC, , maybe Mac is simply better or computer will never work.
Also, the Skyline-Chopin combo is too revealing which directly reflects the shortcoming of the computer sources with mercy. Cessaro Horn, even I am using the entry level speakers, I personally believe they share certain characteristics of other top AE speakers like Tidal which will not forgive poor recording (I listened to the wonderful Tidal speakers at Katongkid’s place before the recent arrival of his Tidal Monoblocks, it is simply crazy speakers). Based on intense trial, the Window based playback cannot match Zero at all. I think that Mac with Amarra will do better but I don't want to invest on a good Powerbook Pro without knowing the definite effects. Of course, I am thankful to PT for introducing me to Chopin which helps me to reveal the quality of sources in a highly objective way.
Keep telling us your progress. You are an interesting chap. All people here seem to love classical music only. Tell us more about rock. How do we know what is good rock etc?
Near field listening carries its merit. Remember to get a diffusor and it will work wonder in your small room. When you have thorough understanding of your setup, get a troy to kill ground noises. In near field listening, the improvement should be huge.
I bought a CD by Mr.Children. Name of album is about a supermarket. The electronic music is quite well arranged but music overall lacks a melodic theme.
Yes, I also felt that the melody of Mr. Children's songs was bit of plain when I first listened to their compliation (1992-1997). Later on, I listened more a few times and began to like it. The album you got is their latest album. Please kindly listen to #2 "HANABI" for a few more time at the highest possible volume. What I like is their gel-like presentations of the instrument and vocal in a very "Spain" feel (like in the cohesiveness in Spain National Team's football). After a while, I began to love Mr. Children, e.g., PT said that the vocal is like Japanese Sam Hui. I am sorry that I also forgot to point into their best songs like "Hero", etc, in other albums.
Dear Uncle Raymond,
To be frank, I actually don't understand music at all. All I know is that rock can release my emotions and stress, e.g., when I play the music from hardrock bands liek AC/DC, B'z, Chickenfoot, Led Zepplin, etc. When I want to listen to the cohesivness and seamless collaborations between band members, I turn to Mr. Children, Coldplay, King of Leon, Beyond, etc. When I feel down or sad, I will listen to Chage and Aska, ANZEN CHITAI, Dead Cab with Cutie, certain songs of Mr. Children, etc. As a result, rock serves my needs in my daily life.
Hey, Rocky Milky Boy, is the horny route really that enchanting? I may not a big fan of enormous horn. The sexy Chopin could well serve the job in a smaller room. How thunderous is the bass in your room?
The Cessaro horn is really cool with tremendous senstivity and speed compared to other sluggish horn from other brands, e.g. I listened to Avan..de horn sometime ago. I have not encountered any problem on the bass-midrange speed discrepancy because of the two-way design of this smaller Chopin horn (the presentation of most range is seamless).
The only obvious link of this Chopin is probably the low to deep bass due to the lack of active sub-woofer found in PT's Beta1 or Shanghai Bigpiece Big Brother's system.
I just came back from HK after listening to both the Tidal Suite and Beta 1 of AE. You are super sharp. From a common friend of mine and PT, he felt that my system fails to provide the full dynamics and imaging of more complex passages fuelled by multiple instruments. To be frank, I am quite sure that bi-wire would not help too much as Masseto doesn’t carry the full dynamics, so I haven’t tried at this stage. I like Skyline which is fast, transparent, dynamic and powerful. Skyline matches the Chopin speakers (蕭公子) real well. At this stage, I am very satisfied with the beautiful vocals + acoustic guitar types of songs or simply less complex passages reproduced by Skyline-Chopin, e.g. playing Ken Hirai’s “Ken’s Bar I and II”, some CDs of Norah Jones and King of Leon, etc. After listening to Beta1 two days ago, I can safely say that Chopin is a “miniaturized” version of the larger Cessaro speakers. They have the common characteristics of very beautiful vocal productions. Of course, the deep bass of Chopin can never match that of Beta1 which is equipped with the two powered sub-woofer units. Therefore Chopin will not reproduce the “live-like” and “acoustic energy filled” sounds of the very fast passages composed of cello, piano and violin which I heard from Beta 1 on Tuesday (PT was using Zanden combo as sources). However, with the correct preamp-power amp combination, Chopin is a very good buy with extremely realistic and beautiful sounds. Most importantly, the integration of most sounds above the lower and deep bass region in Chopin is nearly seamless because of the use of only two drivers. My expert friend said that my Chopin will be able to reproduce good sounds of more complex passages once I will replace my Masseto with Tron or Zanden. I am digging in my wallet now to see whether I will be able to replace Masseto sooner.
Comments
Skyline is probably relatively less popular among the AE community. I learned about it when I common buddy of me and PT said, “A small silver box in PT’s place sounds very nice in driving the then Cessaro Alpha horn”. I know that this fellow is very tough on the music reproduction and is hard to satisfy. However, I knew that my buddy mainly listen to western opera and orchestra. When I told PT that my love is hard rock, he told me that the emotionally involving Cessaro horn driven by Skyline will fit perfectly to my musical tastes. I was a little worried as PT mainly use Skyline-Cessaro Horn for classical music.
After a few days of listening, I feel that the Skyline-Chopin combo is well suited for lovers of hard rock music like me. First of all, the system gives me very realistic vocal reproduction, as mentioned by PT last round when we play Ken Hirai’s great recording known as “Ken’s Bar” (of course, the recently released Ken’s Bar #2 is also great). Secondly, the system can deliver the transient attacks, fast dynamics as well as the passion of rock music in a seamless way across the frequency range of most rock music. I haven’t listened to the music of Beyond for a long time, to me, the only hard rock band ever existed in Hong Kong is Beyond, because I didn’t like to feel sad when I listened to 家駒’s vocal. Yesterday, I finally put in a Beyond CD into the Zero transport as I was really curious to see how Chopin will portray the sound of the best rock band in HK. I first played 遙望, a [中版] rock ballad back in the good old days. I was astonished by the coherency band sounds displayed by Chopin as PT said that he didn’t use this combo for rock music! The system reproduced the collegiate display of vocal and rock instruments between four band members who grew up together. To me, the main difference between pop and band sound is the team spirit and intimacy in music display. Of course, Chopin’s great strength is to passionately reproduce the vocal of the best HK rocker 家駒, my brain was repeatedly reproducing the following verse sung by 家駒 during my entire sleep last night:
“每天多麼多麼的需要 永遠與你抱擁著
忘掉世間一切痛苦悲哀”
PT, thank you.
Yes, I only love hard/alternative rock while my baby likes classical music. So far, I haven't tried all my rock CDs yet but I can say that Chopin does great reproduction of the following rock bands' sound:
1) Beyond (Hong Kong)
2) Southern All Stars (Japan)
3) Audioslave (USA)
4) Radiohead (UK)
5) King of Leon (USA)
6) Mr. Children (Japan, introduced by Uncle Raymond earlier)
7) Gun N' Roses (USA, e.g., the song "November Rain"
8) The Rolling Stones (UK)
9) Pearl Jam (USA)
10) Alice in the Chain (USA)
11) Artic Monkeys (UK)
12) The Chemical Romance (USA)
13)CREED (USA, e.g., "With my arms open")
14)Stone Temple Pilots (USA)
15) U2 (e.g., "Cedars of Lebanon")
In general, I think that Cessaro Horn is great for rock music. PT said that the direct sound from horn helps to express rock nicely.
Milky Boyz
No, not all recordings will fit to the audiophile expectations. However, Mr. Children’s CDs (only made in Japan version is available) are of very nice quality. For the US sides, CREED and King of Leon’s recordings also play real well. In the UK side, the qualities of Coldplay and Radiohead’s CDs are good too. For U2, the sound of the latest album, “On the Line of Horizon” is simply great. I haven’t got the CD of Lady GaGa yet, I will buy one later on today.
Yes, you are very sharp on the characteristic of Shindo preamp. I really sensed that it didn’t give me the most dynamic, speed and punch for playing rock when I used Serenity power cord for feeding electricity from wall to Kyoto (the power cord of Shindo preamp is also Serenity as recommended by PT based on my limited bullets). As you suggested, the passage become a little too gentle for most rock music unless I play a new hard rock album from “Chickenfoot” which really made the sound real rock. Afterwards, I changed the wall power cord from Serenity to the ORB Kurenai. Wow, the Shindo Masseto works much better after this change. Maybe, there is certain magic between the Kurenai and Kyoto!! PT told me that Kurenai is a shielded power cable which has different building philosophy compared to Argento’s cables, (of course, I know that Argento Flow or FMR would be best for any DAC or digital components). After using Kurenai as wall cable, the dynamic, transparency, instrument separation and punch of Shindo become acceptable for most rock albums which I played. The most important is that the rock vocal now fills with the necessary energy and passion. In particular, Shindo plays Japanese rock the best! For example, my system plays the vocal of Chage so well in one of the classic hit of Chage and Aska, "终章 (エピローグ)～追想の主题"!! I was really touched by this song. It also played Coldplay's complex passages in a very nice way (with better instrument separation and vocal energy). For Cessaro horn, PT said that Tron Syren with full loaded options will be my ultimate quest but I cannot afford it now as the Shindo has just arrived. Now I think that the Shindo can work quite well after feeding it with Kurenai. Of course, I would change my mind if I will have a chance to listen to Tron Syren.
Milky Boyz
Also, the Skyline-Chopin combo is too revealing which directly reflects the shortcoming of the computer sources with mercy. Cessaro Horn, even I am using the entry level speakers, I personally believe they share certain characteristics of other top AE speakers like Tidal which will not forgive poor recording (I listened to the wonderful Tidal speakers at Katongkid’s place before the recent arrival of his Tidal Monoblocks, it is simply crazy speakers). Based on intense trial, the Window based playback cannot match Zero at all. I think that Mac with Amarra will do better but I don't want to invest on a good Powerbook Pro without knowing the definite effects. Of course, I am thankful to PT for introducing me to Chopin which helps me to reveal the quality of sources in a highly objective way.
Near field listening carries its merit. Remember to get a diffusor and it will work wonder in your small room. When you have thorough understanding of your setup, get a troy to kill ground noises. In near field listening, the improvement should be huge.
Yes, I also felt that the melody of Mr. Children's songs was bit of plain when I first listened to their compliation (1992-1997). Later on, I listened more a few times and began to like it. The album you got is their latest album. Please kindly listen to #2 "HANABI" for a few more time at the highest possible volume. What I like is their gel-like presentations of the instrument and vocal in a very "Spain" feel (like in the cohesiveness in Spain National Team's football). After a while, I began to love Mr. Children, e.g., PT said that the vocal is like Japanese Sam Hui. I am sorry that I also forgot to point into their best songs like "Hero", etc, in other albums.
Dear Uncle Raymond,
To be frank, I actually don't understand music at all. All I know is that rock can release my emotions and stress, e.g., when I play the music from hardrock bands liek AC/DC, B'z, Chickenfoot, Led Zepplin, etc. When I want to listen to the cohesivness and seamless collaborations between band members, I turn to Mr. Children, Coldplay, King of Leon, Beyond, etc. When I feel down or sad, I will listen to Chage and Aska, ANZEN CHITAI, Dead Cab with Cutie, certain songs of Mr. Children, etc. As a result, rock serves my needs in my daily life.
Yes, I will get the diffusor in two weeks or so.
Thanks for your kind suggestions.
Milky Boyz
The Cessaro horn is really cool with tremendous senstivity and speed compared to other sluggish horn from other brands, e.g. I listened to Avan..de horn sometime ago. I have not encountered any problem on the bass-midrange speed discrepancy because of the two-way design of this smaller Chopin horn (the presentation of most range is seamless).
The only obvious link of this Chopin is probably the low to deep bass due to the lack of active sub-woofer found in PT's Beta1 or Shanghai Bigpiece Big Brother's system.
Milky Boyz
我對呢對喇叭好有興趣. 但你部Masseto動態唔夠, 可能發揮不到Skyline的潛力. 有冇試下bi-wire推"蕭公子"? 我見過他真人, 絕對是中型喇叭, 低玩賣大包之作, 中音有Da Vinci的味道, 而且中低彈跳力比Da Vinci強.
I just came back from HK after listening to both the Tidal Suite and Beta 1 of AE. You are super sharp. From a common friend of mine and PT, he felt that my system fails to provide the full dynamics and imaging of more complex passages fuelled by multiple instruments. To be frank, I am quite sure that bi-wire would not help too much as Masseto doesn’t carry the full dynamics, so I haven’t tried at this stage. I like Skyline which is fast, transparent, dynamic and powerful. Skyline matches the Chopin speakers (蕭公子) real well. At this stage, I am very satisfied with the beautiful vocals + acoustic guitar types of songs or simply less complex passages reproduced by Skyline-Chopin, e.g. playing Ken Hirai’s “Ken’s Bar I and II”, some CDs of Norah Jones and King of Leon, etc. After listening to Beta1 two days ago, I can safely say that Chopin is a “miniaturized” version of the larger Cessaro speakers. They have the common characteristics of very beautiful vocal productions. Of course, the deep bass of Chopin can never match that of Beta1 which is equipped with the two powered sub-woofer units. Therefore Chopin will not reproduce the “live-like” and “acoustic energy filled” sounds of the very fast passages composed of cello, piano and violin which I heard from Beta 1 on Tuesday (PT was using Zanden combo as sources). However, with the correct preamp-power amp combination, Chopin is a very good buy with extremely realistic and beautiful sounds. Most importantly, the integration of most sounds above the lower and deep bass region in Chopin is nearly seamless because of the use of only two drivers. My expert friend said that my Chopin will be able to reproduce good sounds of more complex passages once I will replace my Masseto with Tron or Zanden. I am digging in my wallet now to see whether I will be able to replace Masseto sooner.
Sincerely yours,
牛奶仔
佢用了兩大支bass trap在門口大大減少了左面反射回題, 其實原兇是門和Sunray side woofers的互動所致, 不是牆. 呢套機播黑膠一定驚人.