But I think what may be more interesting is the internals of the Zanden. Stock tube is Philips ECG 6922, and I promptly replaced it with Amperex Bugle Boy 1961. Maybe 1958 Amperex Pinched Waist if stand-by mode doesn't actually turn on the tube....
There transformers, and I can only guess that the stuff inside the copper compartment is the analog filter......
It's actually not possible for me to compare the sound of the Zanden to my previous digital sources, as the Zanden is the first CD player to sing after my apartment's acoustic treatment work..... and the speakers are loaners until my horns arrive end of Jan..... But none the less, comparing it to my humble LP jig, the Zanden does sound very analog. While the Amperex tube is not new (I was using them 10 years ago), the first maybe 20 minutes the highs were noticeably rolled off. After maybe 30 minutes, the Zanden started to sound normal, and my kondo amps also stablized... and then the glory. Even at this early stage, the Zanden's portrait of human voices, and the minute intonations of a singer's voice as she let out her emotions via the song is so naturally rendered (not to mention the sheer of abundance of such details) it's spellbinding. While I did notice that my system sounded *much* more natural and detailed after the acoustic treatments, the fact that the Zanden delivered in spades these details and wide tonal spectrum it's, well, very satisfying indeed.
When it comes to piano (George Winston December, one of only 2 titles I have both CD and vinyl at the moment), I still much prefer the LP setup, but then I don't really know how my 12 year old George Winston December CD compare to the 20 year old vinyl so it's not really a meaningful comparison.....
More to report in a few days when both the Zanden settles and my studio door is properly adjusted.....
I posted the photo here just to show the extent of acoustic work to highlight why comparison to previous sources is not possible....
MatthewC, you really have some serious acoustic works going on. I am impressed as audiophile pays the least attention to acoustics. Some are improving but nevertheless remains half hearted. It seems you are going full throttle on renovate your complete listening area. Can you share more about your acoustic projects with us?
PT mentioned to me about acoustic doors, which he seems start getting serious to get one. What are they?
The acoustics treatment is required before I can have my horns installed (or else I won't be able to purchase them). In any case, the idea, which a lot of people will disagree, is maximum absorption. My apartment had the minimal level of treatment, which compose of 18mm boards stapled onto the walls followed by a layer of acoustic felt. The effect is pretty dramatic. The concrete guns used in the beginning stage of the construction was very loud and had this strong echo making it hard to bear. By the time the acoustic felts are in place, the you can hear the explosive going off followed by a bang, and that's it. No echo at all. The walls and ceiling are then covered by a cloth that's acoustically transparent. The cloth are specially made, and looks absolutely gorgeous.
I still need to have special curtains to be made in order to attenuate the bass. I think my space can go to high-20's to low 30 Hertz flat, with no standing waves. But to go down any deeper, it's going to be very major work (like trimming my usable living space by 30-40%..... My Rey Audio RM-5LC (or more exact, Hidley Model 1V) will goes down to 24Hz. So my current treatment is not enough, but hack, I am afraid that's where I will have to stop.
The acoustics door is a specially made door to provide acoustics isolation. Basically in my case, I have a corridor that leads to the bed rooms ( same as PT's place). The door is a solid door made of various layers of damping material to provide the attenuation, plus drop down seals that will stick out from the door edge when the door is closed. The door, when properly installed, should provide 30-odd db of attenuation. This will, for one, prevent the bass from being trapped in the corridor and resonate. The second purpose is so that I can listen at a more normal level at night, without waking my kids.
At the moment, my acoustic door is installed but not sealed yet, which hopefully will happen tomorrow. But as it, my room is so quiet that once I close the kitchen door as well, my ears start to buzz. And one of the side effect is that I can't hear my own voice via the reflections, so the way I hear myself is very uncomfortable and needs some getting use to. But when it comes to enjoying the musical performance from my system, there is no going back. Ambiance retrieval, micro-dynamics and tonal resolution when up so much it's jaw dropping, even without the special curtains.
Switched from Amperex Bugle Boy to Telefunken E88CC (earliest w/ fat O-getter) and it sounded much better (wider bandwidth, more linear and more detailed...)
Care to share your tube experience w/ the Zanden DAC? (I guess not that many 2500 CD player yet :-)
Yes, I can see how the Tele CCa fits the bill nicely. I was initially worried that telefunken tubes may be too hi-fi sounding, that's why I used it first (to save the best of last so to speak). But I now think it may be the best fit for the Zanden as the Zanden is definitely more rounded. The Tele just give it the extra zest to balance it out. I still need to try my valvo german and amperex holland pinch-waist 6922, which is supposed to be the best 6922/6DJ8 around (plus siemens CCa gray shield). Don't know I will be bothered how well the telefunken turns out to be.
I wonder what tubes other Zanden users employ for their 2000P/5000Sig combo.
I am using the Valvo inside the 5000s. I also replaced all the philips tubes inside the 1200 phono stage to Valvo. They are expensive but I like them very much. Philips is a bit too loose or (too round). I use GE 6X4 as rectifier tube inside the 5000s. For the Zanden 300B PP, the tubes are WE300B with GZ34 rectifier tubes from Mullard, the rectifier tubes for the driver stage of the amp is also from GE.
Once you mounted the cartridge on the grand reference arm, you will wonder why you did not do it earlier. The total integration between the arm and the cartridge can be felt easily. The tonality is rich and ripe, not more sensational artifacts. The dv cartridge has very low groove noise due to its weight. I suggest you to set the tracking force to 2.0 first before moving up to 2.2 to learn about it first. The lightning transients of the GF contrasts sharply with the rich tonality of the DV. You may feel it is slower than the GF in the first few sessions. Let us know your experience. Get another arm for the GF. It is still a top grade cartridge.
Bigpiece, did you suceed steal some time to mount the DV cartridge? I'd like to learn your experience with the Zanden phono which I am using now. I may get the Da Vinci phono stage eventually. Once you heard the cartridge's magical relationship with the arm, you probably can imagine the what will the DV phono do. All the arguments which phono betters than which will end. In my humble view, the DV is not really designed with audiophile in mind. Isn't it a waste with a GF or xv1s on the dv arm? They are fine cartridges but better find another home.
I finally managed to mount the DV cartridge to the DV Grand Ref arm. I cant agree more that I should mount it earlier. Its more to be a reunion of family members. The seamless integration and the experience is at its own class. The design is purely for music appreciation and enjoyment. The replay of classical music, especially on strings and piano, is in line with my expectation as I have listened in PT's setup a year ago. One thing out of my expectation is the replay of canto pop, like 啼笑姻缘, 仙杜拉的歌声简直攞命!
The GF DV combo sounded like CD in comparative terms, perhaps due to my laziness for not making the best out of them. Anyway, I am waiting for the latest version of Phantom for the GF, which I expect to be a good combo for non-classical music.
Finally, I agree that DV cartridge is a must for DV arm, otherwise, its just a waste.
Thank you once again to let me look after your cartridge.
I am glad this fine cartridge find the right owner. PT told me you set the tracking force to 2.0 for a start. My advice is go straight for 2.2 or you miss many lower mid bass energy and details.
Comments
There transformers, and I can only guess that the stuff inside the copper compartment is the analog filter......
When it comes to piano (George Winston December, one of only 2 titles I have both CD and vinyl at the moment), I still much prefer the LP setup, but then I don't really know how my 12 year old George Winston December CD compare to the 20 year old vinyl so it's not really a meaningful comparison.....
More to report in a few days when both the Zanden settles and my studio door is properly adjusted.....
I posted the photo here just to show the extent of acoustic work to highlight why comparison to previous sources is not possible....
PT mentioned to me about acoustic doors, which he seems start getting serious to get one. What are they?
JLam
The acoustics treatment is required before I can have my horns installed (or else I won't be able to purchase them). In any case, the idea, which a lot of people will disagree, is maximum absorption. My apartment had the minimal level of treatment, which compose of 18mm boards stapled onto the walls followed by a layer of acoustic felt. The effect is pretty dramatic. The concrete guns used in the beginning stage of the construction was very loud and had this strong echo making it hard to bear. By the time the acoustic felts are in place, the you can hear the explosive going off followed by a bang, and that's it. No echo at all. The walls and ceiling are then covered by a cloth that's acoustically transparent. The cloth are specially made, and looks absolutely gorgeous.
I still need to have special curtains to be made in order to attenuate the bass. I think my space can go to high-20's to low 30 Hertz flat, with no standing waves. But to go down any deeper, it's going to be very major work (like trimming my usable living space by 30-40%..... My Rey Audio RM-5LC (or more exact, Hidley Model 1V) will goes down to 24Hz. So my current treatment is not enough, but hack, I am afraid that's where I will have to stop.
The acoustics door is a specially made door to provide acoustics isolation. Basically in my case, I have a corridor that leads to the bed rooms ( same as PT's place). The door is a solid door made of various layers of damping material to provide the attenuation, plus drop down seals that will stick out from the door edge when the door is closed. The door, when properly installed, should provide 30-odd db of attenuation. This will, for one, prevent the bass from being trapped in the corridor and resonate. The second purpose is so that I can listen at a more normal level at night, without waking my kids.
At the moment, my acoustic door is installed but not sealed yet, which hopefully will happen tomorrow. But as it, my room is so quiet that once I close the kitchen door as well, my ears start to buzz. And one of the side effect is that I can't hear my own voice via the reflections, so the way I hear myself is very uncomfortable and needs some getting use to. But when it comes to enjoying the musical performance from my system, there is no going back. Ambiance retrieval, micro-dynamics and tonal resolution when up so much it's jaw dropping, even without the special curtains.
Definitely worth it :-)
What's your favourite 6DJ87/6922 tube?
Switched from Amperex Bugle Boy to Telefunken E88CC (earliest w/ fat O-getter) and it sounded much better (wider bandwidth, more linear and more detailed...)
Care to share your tube experience w/ the Zanden DAC? (I guess not that many 2500 CD player yet :-)
Bigpiece
Yes, I can see how the Tele CCa fits the bill nicely. I was initially worried that telefunken tubes may be too hi-fi sounding, that's why I used it first (to save the best of last so to speak). But I now think it may be the best fit for the Zanden as the Zanden is definitely more rounded. The Tele just give it the extra zest to balance it out. I still need to try my valvo german and amperex holland pinch-waist 6922, which is supposed to be the best 6922/6DJ8 around (plus siemens CCa gray shield). Don't know I will be bothered how well the telefunken turns out to be.
I wonder what tubes other Zanden users employ for their 2000P/5000Sig combo.
I am using the Valvo inside the 5000s. I also replaced all the philips tubes inside the 1200 phono stage to Valvo. They are expensive but I like them very much. Philips is a bit too loose or (too round). I use GE 6X4 as rectifier tube inside the 5000s. For the Zanden 300B PP, the tubes are WE300B with GZ34 rectifier tubes from Mullard, the rectifier tubes for the driver stage of the amp is also from GE.
PT
The DV Cartridge arrived in Good shape but sadly I need to wait till the coming weekend for proper installation.
Bigpiece
I finally managed to mount the DV cartridge to the DV Grand Ref arm. I cant agree more that I should mount it earlier. Its more to be a reunion of family members. The seamless integration and the experience is at its own class. The design is purely for music appreciation and enjoyment. The replay of classical music, especially on strings and piano, is in line with my expectation as I have listened in PT's setup a year ago. One thing out of my expectation is the replay of canto pop, like 啼笑姻缘, 仙杜拉的歌声简直攞命!
The GF DV combo sounded like CD in comparative terms, perhaps due to my laziness for not making the best out of them. Anyway, I am waiting for the latest version of Phantom for the GF, which I expect to be a good combo for non-classical music.
Finally, I agree that DV cartridge is a must for DV arm, otherwise, its just a waste.
Thank you once again to let me look after your cartridge.
Cheers
Bigpiece
I am glad this fine cartridge find the right owner. PT told me you set the tracking force to 2.0 for a start. My advice is go straight for 2.2 or you miss many lower mid bass energy and details.
Report back
Nice listening