May the dark force be with you. Had you made up your mind to get a pair of Goebel? I don't recall if your amps have the beef to drive them. Please remind us.
It seems there are increasingly more Goebel fans now after the show. At least a few of my buddies told me about the quality of the demo were way better than Munich because of trinity electronics. In Munich, there was no preamp in the chain in the Goebel room. How could that happen for such hefty price system?
Well, you hit me right at my forehead. Yes I have to buy another trinity stereo to drive the goebel. I only have 1 stereo now. The used market in HK is dead, I was very disappointed by the extreme low ball offer of my alexia.
I have made up my mind, just need to fetch the cash to go ahead. I have been done with Wilson, everything sounds the same coming through them. It was a good experience. I want to move on now.
Congratulations, Darth Vader, on your decision to go mono on the Trinity amp. With the Trinity mono amp, you will be done as far as amps are concerned for many many years to come. The same with the Goebel speakers, I believe.
We all know in this community trinity is the end game in amplification. I don't care what other People from other forum around the world are saying. I trust my ears and PT more. The conviction shown by Dietmar and the AE crew is unprecedented in my audio journey.
Are you contemplating a pair of goebel too? What makes you go for it?
To me, speakers must have great coherence top to bottom, clarity, weight in all the frequencies, great transients, realistic portrayal of the recorded music and scale. The Goebel has all these in spades. The music used before the AE show started gave a glimpse of all these qualities. With better recorded high quality music, I believe the Goebel speakers will show these qualities in all their glory.
I was lucky enough to sneak into both rooms before the first show started, but I just had very brief auditioning of Goebel in low volume. I can tell the coherence of every octave is very smooth, and the mid to treble ranges are very harmonic. Only during the actual show that I experienced the bass in high volume, which was a bit out of control. I think my position and demo software were the major reason.
I like Cessaro room more, and someone played a track of Beyond and I felt it's so real as if I were in the live concert. The speed of the drums was so fast and yet so detailed that each hit was slightly different. It was not just music filling up the room but also the ambience, emotions and sweat. I wish I could spend more time alone with it since I found the crowd did absorb a lot of sound. I was standing at the back during the showroom and most of the deep bass was absorbed before reaching me.
To really experience the true might of these systems, I think it must be in the AE showroom. The position and room acoustic and also software do affect the performance a lot.
I am waiting for Darth Vader's Goebel Epogue Fine. His room is about 350 square feet. I think the Fine suits him well, although I convinced him hard to go for the Epogue reference. Efficiency of the smaller Goebel is also low, I don't think it will be easier for the amp. That's why he has to order another trinity amp.
Hi all,
I received some inquiries about the used power amps at AE`s HK show. These used amps are a special version, which I have designed for my up-coming speakers. They have 96 output transistors pairs per half bridge instead of 84 in the regular power amp. That means these used mono-bridge amps have 384 output transistors per channel!!!
Beside this, the voltage gain stage is also complete redesigned and has now THD of -140dB at 1kHz for an input voltage of 1Vrms, which is needed to bring the PA in full conduction. Overall this Amp can drive now 44A peak to peak with THD of 0.0006% at 1kHz.
The storage capacitor board is also complete different and is now based on a 4 layer PCB. Together with the 8 layer “current gain stage” PCB I have 12 PCB layers for the optimized routing of all the signal and power supply traces and a lot of small changes.
Since we planned to use the Goebel loudspeakers, which have an impedance minimum of 1.7Ohm, Chris and I decided not to wait for the introduction of my loudspeaker, but to use these special amps already for his show, because it was clear that both amps have to run at full power to generate a reasonable sound pressure level based on the given loudspeaker efficiency of 86dB and the expected crowd of 120 people.
As you can see on the enclosed measurement result, these special amps can drive even a 1.6Ohm load with extreme low distortions at almost full Output power. At 0.9Vrms the distortions are 0.00065%, this is 1dB under full conduction. That is the end now, since there is no more space available for additional transistors.
Any further and "bigger" designs would need a complete new enclosure and I think that makes no sense. We should consider we design electronic and speakers for the home use and not for shows with 120 peoples. That is a complete different business.
Next time we should limit the count of people per session to 50, who can be placed between the speakers and not outside of the stereo triangle and we should play some hi-res files to show the real performance of the TRINITY DAC. Unfortunately it is very hard to find such high-res recordings in Cantonese.
So please we should not blame the one who was in charge for the digital selection, his intention was to bring some local music to you. Unfortunately we had no time to check these tracks before we started the show. At such a show we as manufacturer spend half a day during the set-up to select the titles we would play at the show. We have to select the titles, which sound excellent in that given room, especially if we work without any room tuning. For instance the huge sliding door in the back worked as bass absorber and so on. Next time the AT team will join us during the set-up and then we can select together the music to bring AE`s Super Audio Show to an even higher performance level.
By the way after the show I searched for local music in hi-res format and I have found some 96kHz recordings here http://www.hifitrack.com/en/node/27931
These pair of amplifiers have already returned to Germany as they were developed for Research and Development purposes for trinity speakers. It was under special circumstances that Dietmar brought this pair to Hong Kong as the trinity speakers were behind schedule (was originally intended to perform at AE show) and all trinity amps in HK were sold. The trinity amp that was used to drive the Subwoofer was borrowed from Bigpiece.
Comments
May the dark force be with you. Had you made up your mind to get a pair of Goebel? I don't recall if your amps have the beef to drive them. Please remind us.
It seems there are increasingly more Goebel fans now after the show. At least a few of my buddies told me about the quality of the demo were way better than Munich because of trinity electronics. In Munich, there was no preamp in the chain in the Goebel room. How could that happen for such hefty price system?
Well, you hit me right at my forehead. Yes I have to buy another trinity stereo to drive the goebel. I only have 1 stereo now. The used market in HK is dead, I was very disappointed by the extreme low ball offer of my alexia.
I have made up my mind, just need to fetch the cash to go ahead. I have been done with Wilson, everything sounds the same coming through them. It was a good experience. I want to move on now.
We all know in this community trinity is the end game in amplification. I don't care what other People from other forum around the world are saying. I trust my ears and PT more. The conviction shown by Dietmar and the AE crew is unprecedented in my audio journey.
Are you contemplating a pair of goebel too? What makes you go for it?
The Arrakis 2 and the Magico Q7 Mk2
What aspect of Goebel speaker attracts you?
To me, speakers must have great coherence top to bottom, clarity, weight in all the frequencies, great transients, realistic portrayal of the recorded music and scale. The Goebel has all these in spades. The music used before the AE show started gave a glimpse of all these qualities. With better recorded high quality music, I believe the Goebel speakers will show these qualities in all their glory.
I like Cessaro room more, and someone played a track of Beyond and I felt it's so real as if I were in the live concert. The speed of the drums was so fast and yet so detailed that each hit was slightly different. It was not just music filling up the room but also the ambience, emotions and sweat. I wish I could spend more time alone with it since I found the crowd did absorb a lot of sound. I was standing at the back during the showroom and most of the deep bass was absorbed before reaching me.
To really experience the true might of these systems, I think it must be in the AE showroom. The position and room acoustic and also software do affect the performance a lot.
I received some inquiries about the used power amps at AE`s HK show. These used amps are a special version, which I have designed for my up-coming speakers. They have 96 output transistors pairs per half bridge instead of 84 in the regular power amp. That means these used mono-bridge amps have 384 output transistors per channel!!!
Beside this, the voltage gain stage is also complete redesigned and has now THD of -140dB at 1kHz for an input voltage of 1Vrms, which is needed to bring the PA in full conduction. Overall this Amp can drive now 44A peak to peak with THD of 0.0006% at 1kHz.
The storage capacitor board is also complete different and is now based on a 4 layer PCB. Together with the 8 layer “current gain stage” PCB I have 12 PCB layers for the optimized routing of all the signal and power supply traces and a lot of small changes.
Since we planned to use the Goebel loudspeakers, which have an impedance minimum of 1.7Ohm, Chris and I decided not to wait for the introduction of my loudspeaker, but to use these special amps already for his show, because it was clear that both amps have to run at full power to generate a reasonable sound pressure level based on the given loudspeaker efficiency of 86dB and the expected crowd of 120 people.
As you can see on the enclosed measurement result, these special amps can drive even a 1.6Ohm load with extreme low distortions at almost full Output power. At 0.9Vrms the distortions are 0.00065%, this is 1dB under full conduction. That is the end now, since there is no more space available for additional transistors.
Any further and "bigger" designs would need a complete new enclosure and I think that makes no sense. We should consider we design electronic and speakers for the home use and not for shows with 120 peoples. That is a complete different business.
Next time we should limit the count of people per session to 50, who can be placed between the speakers and not outside of the stereo triangle and we should play some hi-res files to show the real performance of the TRINITY DAC. Unfortunately it is very hard to find such high-res recordings in Cantonese.
So please we should not blame the one who was in charge for the digital selection, his intention was to bring some local music to you. Unfortunately we had no time to check these tracks before we started the show. At such a show we as manufacturer spend half a day during the set-up to select the titles we would play at the show. We have to select the titles, which sound excellent in that given room, especially if we work without any room tuning. For instance the huge sliding door in the back worked as bass absorber and so on. Next time the AT team will join us during the set-up and then we can select together the music to bring AE`s Super Audio Show to an even higher performance level.
By the way after the show I searched for local music in hi-res format and I have found some 96kHz recordings here http://www.hifitrack.com/en/node/27931