I notice that Wadax does not receive as much attention and voice as its subperb performance and thus I just also express my views here. I don't have the luck like Marvel having both Trinity and Wadax phono side by side for comparison but I listened to both of them separately in AE. For me, it is not an AB comparison but as Marvel said, there is not any clear winner. At the end of the day, it may be meaningless to judge whether any one gear "wins" another one. They are all extraordinary gear bringing us to paradise of music from different paths. The aspect that I appreciate Wadax much is that it gets the most out from digital domain. It clearly demonstrates the means are not important. The "ends" (musicality, resolution, demensional feeling) matter most to us. I don't repeat here on how Wadax performs on these "ends". As Wadax achieves from digital domain, features like mapping as Javier mentioned, are possible. Another aspect I apprecaite Wadax is that it is a total solution for music source. It covers both phono and CAS. Our perception on "integrated" stuff is that they are usually inferior than separate compoenents. It is just not the case for Wadax. It is a great achievement by Javier that he puts all the top-tier stuff into one(three) box. Just too good to be true...
Sure...I will use this mapping function on the Vertere system together with Madake. I was told the mapping evaluation on Madake is that it is very linear. By the way, one quick question, can I input more than 1 sets of mapping data in the Trio so that I can use to connect Trio with mulitple sets of tonearm/cartridge?
I have to say the mapping idea is groundbreaking. At the user end, however, it is not too user-friendly, I have to say. In order to get the gain right, a minimum of 3-4 iterations are required. And with timezone differences, I wonder how can you deal with increasing wadax users around the world. As far as I know, in HK alone, we are talking about more than 10 wadax phono users already, and the number is growing.
On the positive side, I would never know the Ikeda Kai actually sounds so slow and muddy. I only know after the non-linearity of it is corrected.
But you have to know there are many hardliners in the audiophile community that are not opened to new ideas. I have come across a few that says prefer the original muddy and slow nature of the Ikeda Kai than the corrected version. In my subsequent demo, I just keep my mouth shut. And everyone says the mapped version is significantly better (of course, I did not say mapping has been done. And some say never experieneced Kai sounds this clear.)
PT told me sometimes it takes a week to get a right map for the system. But I understand that it is extremely worthwhile.
What a big party here! Well, isn't the wadax sound great already without mapping? Frankly, I am too old for all the downloads back and forth. But I like its versatile in taking whatever cartridges as I don't need to care all those impedance matching between catridge and the phono input impedance. I also like the remote which saves me a lot of hassles to play with the gain of the phono.
You guys, keep on the perservance to get the ultimate sound.
I am proud to be a user of Wadax trio that really brings my setup to a level I could never imagine, a big leap on dynamics, details and musicality. Can't wait to get my cartridge mapped to see how much further it can achieve.
I have heard great feedback from Vertere / Madake combination. I am looking forward to listen to these singular pieces of engineering at AE.
I have measured them for the mapping flow and we were impressed with results. Touraj has done an extraordinary job. In the last 4 years of mapping, at Wadax we have been exposed to over 100 High-End phono setups. Vertere / Madake measurements were impressive.
And from PT feedback, listening experience after mapping improved further.
About maps in Trio, up to 2 can be loaded simultaneously. Or you can have different pen drives and load them at will. 3 minutes are needed for loading and you are ready to go.
The same as for vinyl curves. Every custom map is applied to 10 different curves. You just need to choose the curve you want, copy into the pen drive and load into the unit.
In our research programme, we are striving to entangle performance with usability. Means bringing ultra-sophisticated core technology in the Trio closer to the user. The Trio has many extra options and settings that are kept internal for engineering and developmental works. We want to provide the user with the means to experience -and share the fun and thrilling time - of some of the activities and evaluations we perform in our lab, in a simple and secure way. We will introduce them periodically in new firmware releases for the unit.
Once of the advantages of digital technology is its versatility. We know tweaking in the classic analogue world comes in the form of physical device change and setups. With digital technology and the adequate algorithms, the behaviour of a certain physical device can be the altered. We are talking about virtual devices, based on the real life product. But this is just the beginning…
So, digital is here to improve and deliver a benefit to the user in terms of performance. And it’s our goal to provide the handles to the user so he can tweak further, leveraging on digital and algorithms.
Thanks for the thoughts around mapping. As you say, the mapping flow currently takes 3-4 iterations. The reason is to optimize the voltage output of the Trio and match in an optimal way with the particular power amp or line stage (if used) in each user’s setup. In a coming firmware version, a map gain adjustment will be added.
This map gain adjustment will be made accessible to the user at any time via the Trio’s touch screen.
As for dealing with the growing number of Trios across the world, we have developed the tools for automating of this and our engineering team takes care of all the flow. We are able to provide a map for any system within 24h. But as discussed in previous message, the mapping flow is one of the usability aspects we are working to simplify in the Trio. The goal is to reach a point where it is fully automated and needs minimal manual intervention.
Very interesting reading on your Wadax Phono especially the mapping side I presume you are using some sort of Computer algorithm for this -no? I was curious to know if you have experienced any DC problems with your testing as a buyer of the PHONO RPS 100 has had in Scandinavia-that Phono has Computer instigation.
Next time I'm in Hong Kong look forward to audition with PT
Our phono feed-forward algorithms are run by our own ASIC, no computer inside. We could not find devices that met our needs, hence we created our chip tailored for the ultimate audio playback. So both the process itself and the processing platform were both designed by us.
As for DC issues you refer to, we cannot help much here.. we have not measured the PHONO RPS 100 you refer to. In our case, our DC offset is negligible.
Googling that phono stage, internally seems a traditional approach. Only the display and signal path configuration is managed by a microcontroller.
Will be great to learn more on your listening experience when you visit PT.
Comments
Sure...I will use this mapping function on the Vertere system together with Madake. I was told the mapping evaluation on Madake is that it is very linear. By the way, one quick question, can I input more than 1 sets of mapping data in the Trio so that I can use to connect Trio with mulitple sets of tonearm/cartridge?
Marvel
I have to say the mapping idea is groundbreaking. At the user end, however, it is not too user-friendly, I have to say. In order to get the gain right, a minimum of 3-4 iterations are required. And with timezone differences, I wonder how can you deal with increasing wadax users around the world. As far as I know, in HK alone, we are talking about more than 10 wadax phono users already, and the number is growing.
On the positive side, I would never know the Ikeda Kai actually sounds so slow and muddy. I only know after the non-linearity of it is corrected.
But you have to know there are many hardliners in the audiophile community that are not opened to new ideas. I have come across a few that says prefer the original muddy and slow nature of the Ikeda Kai than the corrected version. In my subsequent demo, I just keep my mouth shut. And everyone says the mapped version is significantly better (of course, I did not say mapping has been done. And some say never experieneced Kai sounds this clear.)
PT told me sometimes it takes a week to get a right map for the system. But I understand that it is extremely worthwhile.
You guys, keep on the perservance to get the ultimate sound.
I have heard great feedback from Vertere / Madake combination. I am looking forward to listen to these singular pieces of engineering at AE.
I have measured them for the mapping flow and we were impressed with results. Touraj has done an extraordinary job. In the last 4 years of mapping, at Wadax we have been exposed to over 100 High-End phono setups. Vertere / Madake measurements were impressive.
And from PT feedback, listening experience after mapping improved further.
About maps in Trio, up to 2 can be loaded simultaneously. Or you can have different pen drives and load them at will. 3 minutes are needed for loading and you are ready to go.
The same as for vinyl curves. Every custom map is applied to 10 different curves. You just need to choose the curve you want, copy into the pen drive and load into the unit.
In our research programme, we are striving to entangle performance with usability. Means bringing ultra-sophisticated core technology in the Trio closer to the user. The Trio has many extra options and settings that are kept internal for engineering and developmental works. We want to provide the user with the means to experience -and share the fun and thrilling time - of some of the activities and evaluations we perform in our lab, in a simple and secure way. We will introduce them periodically in new firmware releases for the unit.
Once of the advantages of digital technology is its versatility. We know tweaking in the classic analogue world comes in the form of physical device change and setups. With digital technology and the adequate algorithms, the behaviour of a certain physical device can be the altered. We are talking about virtual devices, based on the real life product. But this is just the beginning…
So, digital is here to improve and deliver a benefit to the user in terms of performance. And it’s our goal to provide the handles to the user so he can tweak further, leveraging on digital and algorithms.
Thanks for the thoughts around mapping. As you say, the mapping flow currently takes 3-4 iterations. The reason is to optimize the voltage output of the Trio and match in an optimal way with the particular power amp or line stage (if used) in each user’s setup. In a coming firmware version, a map gain adjustment will be added.
This map gain adjustment will be made accessible to the user at any time via the Trio’s touch screen.
As for dealing with the growing number of Trios across the world, we have developed the tools for automating of this and our engineering team takes care of all the flow. We are able to provide a map for any system within 24h. But as discussed in previous message, the mapping flow is one of the usability aspects we are working to simplify in the Trio. The goal is to reach a point where it is fully automated and needs minimal manual intervention.
Very interesting reading on your Wadax Phono especially the mapping side I presume you are using some sort of Computer algorithm for this -no? I was curious to know if you have experienced any DC problems with your testing as a buyer of the PHONO RPS 100 has had in Scandinavia-that Phono has Computer instigation.
Next time I'm in Hong Kong look forward to audition with PT
BruceW
Our phono feed-forward algorithms are run by our own ASIC, no computer inside. We could not find devices that met our needs, hence we created our chip tailored for the ultimate audio playback. So both the process itself and the processing platform were both designed by us.
As for DC issues you refer to, we cannot help much here.. we have not measured the PHONO RPS 100 you refer to. In our case, our DC offset is negligible.
Googling that phono stage, internally seems a traditional approach. Only the display and signal path configuration is managed by a microcontroller.
Will be great to learn more on your listening experience when you visit PT.
Javier
http://www.monoandstereo.com/2015/05/wadax-pre-1-ultimate-vinyl-replay.html