Marvel bro surrendered after repeated listening. It is so damn effective in reducing excessive energy as a result of his mid horn hitting directly at his cabinet made of solid wood. The fascinating part is the sound has become even more lively than before.
What really kills him is PT had to take it back to welcome Charles' visit tomorrow evening.
I am not surrendering and this gives me a negative image of not having an open mind in accepting new technology which is just the contrary.
In fact, I was hoping to try this when PT mentioned this to me before my vacation. In my room, after the Bergmann has been installed, I have to close my study room on the right hand side of my sys by 3 glass door. I spend quite some time in positioning and fine adjusting a few diffusors over there in order to diffuse the reflection on the glass doors Even PTsang, when visited me before my vacation, also found the glass doors less detrimental than visually would have expected.
Having kind of fixed the right hand side, my CD cabinet on the left hand side is located so close to the left channel of the speaker making the sound a bit congested. At the moment, I do not intend to throw away the cabinet until I find a better replacement so this issue has been 'inherent' as part of my room acoustic problem until last night PT brought over the heavy weighted 'painting' joining Jlam.
By casually putting the painting on the floor in front of the cabinet on the left hand side, the kind of 'noisy' and 'congested' feeling has gone by a wide wide margin and I was thinking what would happen by putting it in the 'sweet spot' to create the maximum effect. Another fantastic thing is that it can intermingle well with the resonators and diffusors that I have been using for long in tweaking my room. I can see the 2 school of thoughts are not the same but at least they are not mutually exclusive to each other. I heard from PT that the 'paintings' are just part of the system and in order to complete the tuning, there are 2 more members in the family which may require a more 'open' mind to accept it.
PT left home together with his 'trial' painting and me puzzling whether I can just take the material inside the frame and hang it on my cabinet and whether I can 'strip' that material into strands and line them up along the surfaces (eg glass doors) to achieve the benefit instead of hanging so many paintings in odd places not supposed to hang a picture such as a CD cabinet or a sliding glass door!!
To summarise, it is not the kind of diffusion/absortion pillars, foam board that we have used before to absort / reflect sound, the reflection coefficient, material used are also meticulously calculated to achieve the prime objective of room tuning leaving the choice of the painting as the fun part for literates like Alecy and Voy.
No doubt Marvel carries the openest mind amongst all of us. Your acoustics are bright just by looking at pics of your room. I tend to believe we cannot change physics. Certain degree of absorption should be beneficial to your room. What I like them the most is the sound has become more dynamic in the lower mid bass to bass area without damaging the highs. The quality of trebel even improves further.
Maybe, marvel bro should buy a few and cut them into pieces and paste them correspondingly to areas in need of treatment. This will show your true openness of your mind.
Voy, you are right, I am actually thinking of order just the raw material without the frame but until I am technologically convinced this would not defeat the design objective, I would not be brave enough to do this 'cut and paste' job.
It can't be because the part of the magic is hidden inside the frame. Anti-resonant materials with low absorption coeffcient comes not just from the painting but together with the frame as a total package.
Your logic is often sounds very strange to me. Why don't you just cover everything with a thick cloth? The whole purpose of the acoustic paintings is to do acoustic job properly without the usual oddward look. Buy and cut them into pieces do not mean you have an open mind. It only shows you have not done enough homework , or ask the right questions.
Ray, come on... Marvel is toying strange idea in his head all the time... Don't be that serious. Why spare the time do homework? His personal consultant will advise him accordingly.
I wager a dinner if you are successful with eliminating the problem w/ your cabinet, you will only have more pain with the room on the right hand side. And if you manged to fix that too, the doors or the ceiling or your furniture will bug you till you fix them too. The more acoustic problems you think you have fixed, the more pain the remaining ones will cause you. ad nauseam.
Raymond, that is why I said until I am convinced tecnologically this is viable, I would see this as a total solution. I won't cut the painting into pieces, if I have to do this, I would just order the material/paintings in sizes of my need, eg. smaller width but same height...just some thoughts as nobody has told me the size of the current painting is in the golden proportion, right?
Matthew, sounds like you are either in the hell of facing more acoustic problems with an earlier attempt to fix them all or you are in heaven of having no acoustic problem at all. I congratulate you if it is the latter case. Please share more on your experience and how I should approach this.
Marvel, no hard feelings please. I know I sound like an asshole.
Hope you trust some words from this arrogant old man. There will always be endless acoustic problems. You can go to the extreme of absorbing all noises like a studio. But then fun is gone because music sounds dead. We are not recording engineer. Our purpose wants to listen better music, that's all, isn't it?
But it turns out to be not easy. May I ask you does the addition of the painting brings a better overall "BALANCE" to your sound. If yes, then you need it. If not, then forget it.
You may then hear the problem of the ceiling or other stuff as the other guy suggest. You can choose to ignore them if the overall sound is in balance.
I am in neither case. There are problems still, spot lighted, but not bad enough to put me in hell. That's understood before construction began. What I noticed as the construction begins, and throughout the process, progressively, reflected sound from non-treated areas and the furniture became more audible. Once the construction is completed, moving around the my apartment, the changes in acoustic was clear. So my suggestion is that, given your situation, you should not go too far in removing "noises" and it will make things worse, not better. Upon removal of such noises, it sound great at first, and then you start to notice other problems. And after a few iterations, the remaining problems get more and more spot-lighted and disjoint. Hell, in the case, is the final destination. Tread carefully, my brother.
As to Raymond's suggestion that studio sounding dead, that's a common misconception. If you walk straight into a properly done studio, for the first 10-30 minutes, one's hearing is impaired. One get the sensation of buzzing sound in one's head. If you listen during that period, the "buzzing sound" you hear kills the details. In reality, once you allow your ear (your nerves actually) to settle, you hear much improved dynamics, and much much more details. If you crave the out-of-phase "noise" one get from reflective environment, as there is more to hear, that's another matter. What "more" you hear from reflective environment, is not what's on the disc, CD or LP.
In the end, what do you want to hear? The performance, AS RECORDED, the modulated by your equipment, or your interpretation of the recording of the performance, as modulated by the equipment plus room acoustics as you undertake to treat your room, is mostly up to you, but the original performance can't be recreated, whethere you go to the extreme of building a studio, or not.
I would say, as long as you have balanced environment, that's as far as you should go. Balanced is subject to interpretation, of course :-)
One way to do this, I am guessing here, is to install heavy, non-reflective curtains along the 2 sides walls, covering the opening to your room on the right hand side, and also cover the cabinet. I suspect you also need to do something in that room, as it's basically a resonance chamber. If you put the curtain on, and open the windows in the small room, maybe it'll be better.
Comments
What really kills him is PT had to take it back to welcome Charles' visit tomorrow evening.
Ptsang, what does the painting do to your sound?
I am not surrendering and this gives me a negative image of not having an open mind in accepting new technology which is just the contrary.
In fact, I was hoping to try this when PT mentioned this to me before my vacation. In my room, after the Bergmann has been installed, I have to close my study room on the right hand side of my sys by 3 glass door. I spend quite some time in positioning and fine adjusting a few diffusors over there in order to diffuse the reflection on the glass doors Even PTsang, when visited me before my vacation, also found the glass doors less detrimental than visually would have expected.
Having kind of fixed the right hand side, my CD cabinet on the left hand side is located so close to the left channel of the speaker making the sound a bit congested. At the moment, I do not intend to throw away the cabinet until I find a better replacement so this issue has been 'inherent' as part of my room acoustic problem until last night PT brought over the heavy weighted 'painting' joining Jlam.
By casually putting the painting on the floor in front of the cabinet on the left hand side, the kind of 'noisy' and 'congested' feeling has gone by a wide wide margin and I was thinking what would happen by putting it in the 'sweet spot' to create the maximum effect. Another fantastic thing is that it can intermingle well with the resonators and diffusors that I have been using for long in tweaking my room. I can see the 2 school of thoughts are not the same but at least they are not mutually exclusive to each other. I heard from PT that the 'paintings' are just part of the system and in order to complete the tuning, there are 2 more members in the family which may require a more 'open' mind to accept it.
PT left home together with his 'trial' painting and me puzzling whether I can just take the material inside the frame and hang it on my cabinet and whether I can 'strip' that material into strands and line them up along the surfaces (eg glass doors) to achieve the benefit instead of hanging so many paintings in odd places not supposed to hang a picture such as a CD cabinet or a sliding glass door!!
To summarise, it is not the kind of diffusion/absortion pillars, foam board that we have used before to absort / reflect sound, the reflection coefficient, material used are also meticulously calculated to achieve the prime objective of room tuning leaving the choice of the painting as the fun part for literates like Alecy and Voy.
Marvel
Maybe, marvel bro should buy a few and cut them into pieces and paste them correspondingly to areas in need of treatment. This will show your true openness of your mind.
Your logic is often sounds very strange to me. Why don't you just cover everything with a thick cloth? The whole purpose of the acoustic paintings is to do acoustic job properly without the usual oddward look. Buy and cut them into pieces do not mean you have an open mind. It only shows you have not done enough homework , or ask the right questions.
I wager a dinner if you are successful with eliminating the problem w/ your cabinet, you will only have more pain with the room on the right hand side. And if you manged to fix that too, the doors or the ceiling or your furniture will bug you till you fix them too. The more acoustic problems you think you have fixed, the more pain the remaining ones will cause you. ad nauseam.
Matthew, sounds like you are either in the hell of facing more acoustic problems with an earlier attempt to fix them all or you are in heaven of having no acoustic problem at all. I congratulate you if it is the latter case. Please share more on your experience and how I should approach this.
Marvel
Hope you trust some words from this arrogant old man. There will always be endless acoustic problems. You can go to the extreme of absorbing all noises like a studio. But then fun is gone because music sounds dead. We are not recording engineer. Our purpose wants to listen better music, that's all, isn't it?
But it turns out to be not easy. May I ask you does the addition of the painting brings a better overall "BALANCE" to your sound. If yes, then you need it. If not, then forget it.
You may then hear the problem of the ceiling or other stuff as the other guy suggest. You can choose to ignore them if the overall sound is in balance.
The keyword here is balance.
I am in neither case. There are problems still, spot lighted, but not bad enough to put me in hell. That's understood before construction began. What I noticed as the construction begins, and throughout the process, progressively, reflected sound from non-treated areas and the furniture became more audible. Once the construction is completed, moving around the my apartment, the changes in acoustic was clear. So my suggestion is that, given your situation, you should not go too far in removing "noises" and it will make things worse, not better. Upon removal of such noises, it sound great at first, and then you start to notice other problems. And after a few iterations, the remaining problems get more and more spot-lighted and disjoint. Hell, in the case, is the final destination. Tread carefully, my brother.
As to Raymond's suggestion that studio sounding dead, that's a common misconception. If you walk straight into a properly done studio, for the first 10-30 minutes, one's hearing is impaired. One get the sensation of buzzing sound in one's head. If you listen during that period, the "buzzing sound" you hear kills the details. In reality, once you allow your ear (your nerves actually) to settle, you hear much improved dynamics, and much much more details. If you crave the out-of-phase "noise" one get from reflective environment, as there is more to hear, that's another matter. What "more" you hear from reflective environment, is not what's on the disc, CD or LP.
In the end, what do you want to hear? The performance, AS RECORDED, the modulated by your equipment, or your interpretation of the recording of the performance, as modulated by the equipment plus room acoustics as you undertake to treat your room, is mostly up to you, but the original performance can't be recreated, whethere you go to the extreme of building a studio, or not.
I would say, as long as you have balanced environment, that's as far as you should go. Balanced is subject to interpretation, of course :-)
One way to do this, I am guessing here, is to install heavy, non-reflective curtains along the 2 sides walls, covering the opening to your room on the right hand side, and also cover the cabinet. I suspect you also need to do something in that room, as it's basically a resonance chamber. If you put the curtain on, and open the windows in the small room, maybe it'll be better.
My 2 pesos.