The reproduction of the organ LP says it all. What else can we comment? The speed, control, grandeur, and refinement are spades. The violin/piano recording also showed off its finesse from a 107db horn speakers with front load bass horn in an area of 130 square meter.
The preamp must be something special to handle this, particularly with Zanden masterpiece 長空 as the amplifier.
I had been constantly traveling in August and had no quality time to really set up the RACH sub until about a week ago. I shall just begin with the conclusion this time: I really love the RACH sub for two reasons: (1) I like it big and imposing and dominant in physical size (2) it completely disappears in operation. (3) the dramatic improvement of it delivers ON ALL FREQUENCIES. To compare, I am very certain that ONE RACH is better than the subwoofers built inside the CARMEN inside at AE showroom. Inside the carmen, there are two 12" subwoofers in each channel. That means there are a total of 4 x 12" woofers at AE. Surprisingly, the impact is not as great as one RACH SUB housing 2 X 16" subwoofers. My home can only house 1 RACH for obvious reason.
Integration of the subwoofer with the main speakers requires some trainings. First of all, we need to know the input sensitivity of the amplifier driving the main speakers and the amp inside the RACH. To cut a long story short, the volume of the RACH sub at my home is -6db. To compare, at AE, the volume of the sub is +5db. (Because input sensitivity of Zanden Chouku is much higher than the amp driving the sub. As a result, the volume of the sub has to be higher in order to synchronize with the main amp's input sensitivity.
The phase angle after numerous trials, I settled it at 30 degree crossing at 50hz, with a -18db slope. These are the technical parameters. I am extremely satisfied with the integration. Spatial resolution expands tremendously. High frequency harmonics have much more room to develop naturally and extendedly with both body and speed. The realism of vocal reaches another dimension that I can't describe unless you come to experience. When the integration is good, each object in the musical scene carries "depth". This is not just about the macro sound stage depth. I am referring to the depth of "each" musical note. Without subwoofer, this level of performance can never be achieved.
But how to determine the phase angle, subwoofer volume, cross frequencies, and the slope of roll off etc is a scientific process. Human ears of course is the final judge but without the knowhow it is very difficult to get it right. After many years of learning from Yamada and Ralph, I believe I know the tricks now.
Last but not least is the fact that the interconnect cable between the preamp to the amp inside the sub matters as much as the interconnect between the preamp and the main amp, however low is the crossover point. In my case it is at 50hz and the volume is at -6db. In fact, I experienced the most dramatic improvement after I plugged in a pair of 4M long Vetere Pulse R (the level below HB) to the RACH sub.
The whole musical scene is freaking transparent. Ambience is abundant even at the very low octave. I have a very solid stage extending in all axis in front of my listening position now. When I turn the RACH off, I do not want to listen again because everything collapses. When I switch it back on, transparency explodes. And most importantly, everything disappears as it should be.
I can imagine the achievement of the RACH sub in completing your fabulous system at home. But I want to point out this point to share with others - for Cessaro users with active subwoofers - it is better for the main amplifier driving the main speakers with LOWER input sensitivity than the amp driving the sub. That will force you to reduce the volume of the subwoofer, and that is good because less demanding on the amplifier inside the sub, sound is faster, and more details. That translates into easier integration.
At AE, the subwoofer volume is +5-6db because of the need to catch up the much higher input sensitivity of Zanden Chouku or Lars Type 2 mono block. If you are given a choice, you should either (1) opt for the main amplifier with lower input sensitivity or (2) ask Ralph to build an amplifier inside the sub with adjustable input sensitivity. The goal is to integrate the sub with the main speaker - without the need to crank up the sub volume too much.
I believe there is the technical reason why you feel the RACH sub seems to be better than the sub inside the Carmen.
By the way, the integration at AE is already awesome.
I had the same experience integrating the Rach sub with my Lars type 2 which carries an input sensitivity higher than that of the one inside Rach, as a result, during the Rach has to tune up by 7db in order to match with Lar2.
I use the same analogy, it is a 3-d and 2-d movie with and without the Rach, period. I don't know how to explain but I have a few friends visiting me and they all share the same observation when we conduct AB comparison switching on and off the sub.
Dear citizens of the AE forum. I´m Timo Engström, CEO and Industrial Designer of Engström, maker of THE LARS and THE MONICA from Sweden. I´ve been following the discussions on this forum on a distance for quite a while. Since I just arrived back to Sweden after visiting the AE showroom in HK during last weekend, I thought it would be nice to share some of my experience. Accompanied by my fiancé, Amelie, we spent time with PT, auditioning the set up at AE Showroom, visiting Audio Technique and visiting Marvel to listen to THE LARS and THE MONICA together with his Cessaro Alpha. PT is a great host and we had lots of fun talking about future plans. The AE Showroom is just as great as it´s always described here on the forum. Amelie and I were both surprised over the Cessaro´s large soundstage and how wide the sweet spot was. It´s great to be able to sit next to each other and still feel that non of us had the better seat. Actually being able to change position in a relaxing way to just enjoy the music together. I´m also impressed by the Zanden amplification having such detail, speed and control, transients, timber and base, although I´m not a fan of the SET coloration of 2nd harmonic distortion which is significant in this setup. We got a wonderful welcome at the Audio Technique and spent a few hours talking to Rebecca, Lincoln, George and Martin. It´s so encouraging to meet people showing such passion for what this is all about and their in depth knowledge and curiosity on our products. All though Marvel has little free time to spend, he welcomed us to his beautiful home to listen to his truly great system. It was fantastic to listen to this full system playing and I felt happy and proud for our products being part of accomplishing that true pure natural sounding freedom. Both PT, Marvel and the people of Audio Technique have great knowledge in music, even Swedish, and all the records they played was top quality. To experience HK was also very spectacular. A beautiful melting pot of culture, urban high pace and wild nature and grace. A timeless place where past and future are present at the same time. During our few days we managed to experience HK City, the Peak, Pok Fu Lam Country Park and the cable car to Tian Tan Buddha. I´m looking forward to return to HK soon again.
Yes, I fully agree. Spectacular is a good word to describe Marvels setup. I really felt how Marvel have worked through every detail in his system to optimize it and to make all the components become one. It is also liberating to feel that you are enjoying music in a live environment. A livingroom with a grand view in the hart of the home. Not a dedicated man cave, but much more present to be enjoyed together with friend and family. And still accomplish super sound. There could maybe be some improvements to the acoustic environment but it´s important to let it still be part of everyday life. Marvel played great music, starting with high-res files and CD and when he changed from digital to vinyl, playing the same record, my fiancé Amelie was astonished about how fantastic a vinyl record can sound. So was I, although I´ve experienced it before. I can tell that Marvel is not just a hard core audiophile but a true music lover.
Comments
Performance is different between two. But no winner. Copper is more raw and honest. Silver is very refine.
The preamp must be something special to handle this, particularly with Zanden masterpiece 長空 as the amplifier.
Integration of the subwoofer with the main speakers requires some trainings. First of all, we need to know the input sensitivity of the amplifier driving the main speakers and the amp inside the RACH. To cut a long story short, the volume of the RACH sub at my home is -6db. To compare, at AE, the volume of the sub is +5db. (Because input sensitivity of Zanden Chouku is much higher than the amp driving the sub. As a result, the volume of the sub has to be higher in order to synchronize with the main amp's input sensitivity.
The phase angle after numerous trials, I settled it at 30 degree crossing at 50hz, with a -18db slope. These are the technical parameters. I am extremely satisfied with the integration. Spatial resolution expands tremendously. High frequency harmonics have much more room to develop naturally and extendedly with both body and speed. The realism of vocal reaches another dimension that I can't describe unless you come to experience. When the integration is good, each object in the musical scene carries "depth". This is not just about the macro sound stage depth. I am referring to the depth of "each" musical note. Without subwoofer, this level of performance can never be achieved.
But how to determine the phase angle, subwoofer volume, cross frequencies, and the slope of roll off etc is a scientific process. Human ears of course is the final judge but without the knowhow it is very difficult to get it right. After many years of learning from Yamada and Ralph, I believe I know the tricks now.
Last but not least is the fact that the interconnect cable between the preamp to the amp inside the sub matters as much as the interconnect between the preamp and the main amp, however low is the crossover point. In my case it is at 50hz and the volume is at -6db. In fact, I experienced the most dramatic improvement after I plugged in a pair of 4M long Vetere Pulse R (the level below HB) to the RACH sub.
The whole musical scene is freaking transparent. Ambience is abundant even at the very low octave. I have a very solid stage extending in all axis in front of my listening position now. When I turn the RACH off, I do not want to listen again because everything collapses. When I switch it back on, transparency explodes. And most importantly, everything disappears as it should be.
I really like the RACH.
I can imagine the achievement of the RACH sub in completing your fabulous system at home. But I want to point out this point to share with others - for Cessaro users with active subwoofers - it is better for the main amplifier driving the main speakers with LOWER input sensitivity than the amp driving the sub. That will force you to reduce the volume of the subwoofer, and that is good because less demanding on the amplifier inside the sub, sound is faster, and more details. That translates into easier integration.
At AE, the subwoofer volume is +5-6db because of the need to catch up the much higher input sensitivity of Zanden Chouku or Lars Type 2 mono block. If you are given a choice, you should either (1) opt for the main amplifier with lower input sensitivity or (2) ask Ralph to build an amplifier inside the sub with adjustable input sensitivity. The goal is to integrate the sub with the main speaker - without the need to crank up the sub volume too much.
I believe there is the technical reason why you feel the RACH sub seems to be better than the sub inside the Carmen.
By the way, the integration at AE is already awesome.
I had the same experience integrating the Rach sub with my Lars type 2 which carries an input sensitivity higher than that of the one inside Rach, as a result, during the Rach has to tune up by 7db in order to match with Lar2.
I use the same analogy, it is a 3-d and 2-d movie with and without the Rach, period. I don't know how to explain but I have a few friends visiting me and they all share the same observation when we conduct AB comparison switching on and off the sub.
Marvel
I´m Timo Engström, CEO and Industrial Designer of Engström, maker of THE LARS and THE MONICA from Sweden.
I´ve been following the discussions on this forum on a distance for quite a while.
Since I just arrived back to Sweden after visiting the AE showroom in HK during last weekend, I thought it would be nice to share some of my experience.
Accompanied by my fiancé, Amelie, we spent time with PT, auditioning the set up at AE Showroom, visiting Audio Technique and visiting Marvel to listen to THE LARS and THE MONICA together with his Cessaro Alpha.
PT is a great host and we had lots of fun talking about future plans.
The AE Showroom is just as great as it´s always described here on the forum. Amelie and I were both surprised over the Cessaro´s large soundstage and how wide the sweet spot was. It´s great to be able to sit next to each other and still feel that non of us had the better seat. Actually being able to change position in a relaxing way to just enjoy the music together.
I´m also impressed by the Zanden amplification having such detail, speed and control, transients, timber and base, although I´m not a fan of the SET coloration of 2nd harmonic distortion which is significant in this setup.
We got a wonderful welcome at the Audio Technique and spent a few hours talking to Rebecca, Lincoln, George and Martin. It´s so encouraging to meet people showing such passion for what this is all about and their in depth knowledge and curiosity on our products.
All though Marvel has little free time to spend, he welcomed us to his beautiful home to listen to his truly great system.
It was fantastic to listen to this full system playing and I felt happy and proud for our products being part of accomplishing that true pure natural sounding freedom.
Both PT, Marvel and the people of Audio Technique have great knowledge in music, even Swedish, and all the records they played was top quality.
To experience HK was also very spectacular. A beautiful melting pot of culture, urban high pace and wild nature and grace. A timeless place where past and future are present at the same time. During our few days we managed to experience HK City, the Peak, Pok Fu Lam Country Park and the cable car to Tian Tan Buddha.
I´m looking forward to return to HK soon again.
Marvel played great music, starting with high-res files and CD and when he changed from digital to vinyl, playing the same record, my fiancé Amelie was astonished about how fantastic a vinyl record can sound. So was I, although I´ve experienced it before.
I can tell that Marvel is not just a hard core audiophile but a true music lover.