The Engstrom system is amazing on opera recording especially mezzo soprano. Cessaro Qian Long is made for tube electronics in mind obviously. Ralph is a tube guy. Indeed, Ralph actually invited Timo/Lars to co-operate next year in Munich 2018 - Monica V2/Eric driving a pair of Qian Long.
Most focus on harmonic decay. It is true not many understand or pay attention to sonority.
Since the birth of this thread in March 2014 and 10 pages of experiences of this symbiotic relationship between Engstrom and Engstrom and Cessaro loudspeakers, I would like to contribute my experiences and emotions regarding this marriage of titans.
The inseparable MonicaV2/Lar2 combo has now consummated a marriage with the Cessaro Brahms. I really like this combination. After struggling to bring the speakers up to the room, setup was very easy. Weighing in at nearly 370 kg each, setting it up was not that difficult. Though, i am still experimenting on the position to suit my listening fads.
Now, these speakers are intimidating! Its size and horn just looks at you like a cyclops waiting to eat you. Despite that, my wife and I struggle to pinpoint music coming out of it. It does the Houdini act impeccably. Instruments are well placed and layered. There is lots of headroom. Bass is well controlled, deep and graduated and the shimmer of the highs are beautiful without being obtrusive and fake. I also found that the noise level within the system decreased tremendously. Audible hums have nearly disappeared. Now I am getting payback from all the equipment invested upstream.
One thing i must say is that these speakers will suit any size room as long as it can fit in the door.... Being a horn, they are less (not completely but LESS) affected by the side wall compared to box speakers. Volumes which were being played at -18 to -12dB previously are now tuned at -22 to -24dB. Vocals don't shout at me but flow with tonal sonority. I can sing along without popping a vein in my neck as well.
There are still more parameters to play around with such as the distance of the super tweeters. Once i get to that, i will say more.
Music is now endless. The amount of information being retrieved is similar to that of getting a new turntable. But I feel I am getting the full capability of the others equipment now.
Listening to music through the Brahms powered by the MonicaV2/Lars2 combo brings the emotion of the music out. You know that it is this combo being presented. The naturalness and delicate intricacies of the instruments are brought out. Male and female vocals are flow impeccably with an eerie presences. The tone, aura and setting are made out so naturally.
Expressing ones admiration for his own is very difficult because its like a tube amp. It has a bias factor.
Anyway, if anyone is in this neck of the woods and wants to drop by, do drop me a line.
Again, thank you Chris for putting up with me and giving me this opportunity. These "crazily" spec'd Brahms and the MonicaV2/Lars2 combo are just out of this world!
Where is your troy signature? A whole suite of Engstrom is in a class of its own. The main stream guys may not understand. But we all know what this pair of super 300B is capable of! Are you using Dalby and Skogrand cables all through?
My audio journey has been full of excitement. I have gathered tonnes of information by reading in my earlier years in university and visiting unknown audio designers at the time. One example is Kevin Scott of Living Voice. I blame him for my love of tubes and horn loudspeakers. I visited him when he was working out of his dining room when he asked me to listen to his audio innovation tube amps driving his prototype Air Scout loudspeakers. This was my unfortunate / fortunate entry into the audio world. That was 25 years ago. For me, the journey is as enjoyable as the intended destination. This journey also requires me to slogged it out at work...
So to answer, where my troy signature is... A tripoint grounding unit has always been in the cards and strategically will be consumated when the main hardware is up to par. Hence the level of satisfaction i will achieve when the grounding unit is put in at the end will uplift all the upstream investments 2-3 fold. I need to do it like this is like a pension plan... hahaha. So for the time being, at the helm of the grounding, i have the Telos active grounding unit connected to the phono, Monica, Lars2 and the chassis of the JMF PCD302. It has to work hard for now..
As for my cables, I am using Dalby Meda powercords at the phono stage and the Monica. The Skogrand (Beethovan/Wagners) are speaker cables, XLR and power cords for the Lars. I have experienced a few other combinations of cables in my system e.g. Vertere Hb and Argento FMRs.
The whole Engstrom suite IS a class of its own. Its there, its on the ball and it not exaggerated. I always thought i had to sacrifice the beautiful 300B seductiveness for speed and attack. But these 300bXLS in a double push pull configuration knocks the ball out of the ballpark with the basses loaded. I still get extreme enjoyment head banging to Metallica....
But when these monsters were paired up with the Cessaro, its a eureka moment. Just like in oil and gas, all investments upstream materialised.
Having said this, one thing i need to say about this Engstrom/Cessaro combo is that the bass attained IS something that not many will be able to understand or like. It is low, controlled and lacks that "woofiness". Im probably out of my league by saying this but i think the Q factor/quotient of the Brahms has been set low. This is related to the circuitry, damping and compliance. This is also influenced by the movement of the drivers and resonance within the horns (material, design etc) i.e. the compliance of these parts. All a bit complicated for the thing placed between my ears... I hope I'm getting this right. (Maybe Ralph and Lars/Timo can help me out here). Hence a short harmonic decaying bass ending at 30s-1 (Hz). And this is exactly what the Engstrom is all about. Hence the coherence of this couple. So, this explains the comments I hear about Cessaro's bass. Its not the lack of it, its the lack of the "woofiness" that i have trained my ear over the years to accept as the gold standard. This is one of the connoisseur presentations of music that PT has been able to present to us all. Absolutely bliss... Kudos!
Whats next? My pension is far from sight but while my wife was brushing her teeth this morning i heard her gargle something that sounded like Rach.
Only for AV setups.. The Rach subwoofer is the most logical addition to complete the Cessaro family. Coming in at a whopping 180kg and a 66 cm2 footprint, its no slouch. This dual chamber, front ported, active behemoth is very intimidating. Set at a crossover of 55Hz, a slope of -18dB and 0 phase, I was set to go. I used the subsonic mode on. It will definitely increase the power requirements of the built-in amplifier and increase the noise level. But ill tell you why i use it later. The volume level was experimented with a starting point of 0 dB and increased incrementally +1dB on the fly. When the music starts to collapse or is overwhelmed by the base, then turn down the volume by 1 dB to the most appropriate value. For the Lars type II, i have been living with +7dB Rach volume, very comfortably. I positioned the Rach's 16" drivers in line with the 16" drivers of the Brahms to avoid any delay.
The Rach has definitely added more bass from where the Brahms rolled off. But how much bass can one hear? Its not a matter of what we can hear and it's not all about bass. The Rach definitely produces music to levels which are not audible. This produces sonic spatial reflections. By turning on the subsonic button, it would also produce subsonic spatial reflections. We have very little spatial reflections in a room which is not treated. This is increased probably by 2-3 fold with acoustic room treatment. In a well designed concert hall, the spatial reflections will increase by 30 fold. The more reflection points produced in a space, the more 3 dimensionality we will get over the total frequency bandwidth. That is why I think a subwoofer, the Rach in this case is the missing link for speaker systems. Depth, dimensionality, timbre, focus, transparency throughout the whole bandwidth improves by a factor of 2 to 3. Sure there are other factors that can be brought into the equation such as stereo Rachs, active or passive, ported or not, etc etc.
A-B comparison only replicated the feeling when Miguel unplugged the Tripoint grounding at the 2017 AE show. Believe me, once plugged in, you cannot live without it. I know I can't.
Comments
Most focus on harmonic decay. It is true not many understand or pay attention to sonority.
https://www.monoandstereo.com/2018/08/engstrom-eric-power-amplifiers-have.html#more
The inseparable MonicaV2/Lar2 combo has now consummated a marriage with the Cessaro Brahms. I really like this combination. After struggling to bring the speakers up to the room, setup was very easy. Weighing in at nearly 370 kg each, setting it up was not that difficult. Though, i am still experimenting on the position to suit my listening fads.
Now, these speakers are intimidating! Its size and horn just looks at you like a cyclops waiting to eat you. Despite that, my wife and I struggle to pinpoint music coming out of it. It does the Houdini act impeccably. Instruments are well placed and layered. There is lots of headroom. Bass is well controlled, deep and graduated and the shimmer of the highs are beautiful without being obtrusive and fake. I also found that the noise level within the system decreased tremendously. Audible hums have nearly disappeared. Now I am getting payback from all the equipment invested upstream.
One thing i must say is that these speakers will suit any size room as long as it can fit in the door.... Being a horn, they are less (not completely but LESS) affected by the side wall compared to box speakers. Volumes which were being played at -18 to -12dB previously are now tuned at -22 to -24dB. Vocals don't shout at me but flow with tonal sonority. I can sing along without popping a vein in my neck as well.
There are still more parameters to play around with such as the distance of the super tweeters. Once i get to that, i will say more.
Music is now endless. The amount of information being retrieved is similar to that of getting a new turntable. But I feel I am getting the full capability of the others equipment now.
Listening to music through the Brahms powered by the MonicaV2/Lars2 combo brings the emotion of the music out. You know that it is this combo being presented. The naturalness and delicate intricacies of the instruments are brought out. Male and female vocals are flow impeccably with an eerie presences. The tone, aura and setting are made out so naturally.
Expressing ones admiration for his own is very difficult because its like a tube amp. It has a bias factor.
Anyway, if anyone is in this neck of the woods and wants to drop by, do drop me a line.
Again, thank you Chris for putting up with me and giving me this opportunity. These "crazily" spec'd Brahms and the MonicaV2/Lars2 combo are just out of this world!
Til next time,
Khairul
Where is your troy signature? A whole suite of Engstrom is in a class of its own. The main stream guys may not understand. But we all know what this pair of super 300B is capable of! Are you using Dalby and Skogrand cables all through?
My audio journey has been full of excitement. I have gathered tonnes of information by reading in my earlier years in university and visiting unknown audio designers at the time. One example is Kevin Scott of Living Voice. I blame him for my love of tubes and horn loudspeakers. I visited him when he was working out of his dining room when he asked me to listen to his audio innovation tube amps driving his prototype Air Scout loudspeakers. This was my unfortunate / fortunate entry into the audio world. That was 25 years ago. For me, the journey is as enjoyable as the intended destination. This journey also requires me to slogged it out at work...
So to answer, where my troy signature is... A tripoint grounding unit has always been in the cards and strategically will be consumated when the main hardware is up to par. Hence the level of satisfaction i will achieve when the grounding unit is put in at the end will uplift all the upstream investments 2-3 fold. I need to do it like this is like a pension plan... hahaha. So for the time being, at the helm of the grounding, i have the Telos active grounding unit connected to the phono, Monica, Lars2 and the chassis of the JMF PCD302. It has to work hard for now..
As for my cables, I am using Dalby Meda powercords at the phono stage and the Monica. The Skogrand (Beethovan/Wagners) are speaker cables, XLR and power cords for the Lars. I have experienced a few other combinations of cables in my system e.g. Vertere Hb and Argento FMRs.
The whole Engstrom suite IS a class of its own. Its there, its on the ball and it not exaggerated. I always thought i had to sacrifice the beautiful 300B seductiveness for speed and attack. But these 300bXLS in a double push pull configuration knocks the ball out of the ballpark with the basses loaded. I still get extreme enjoyment head banging to Metallica....
But when these monsters were paired up with the Cessaro, its a eureka moment. Just like in oil and gas, all investments upstream materialised.
Having said this, one thing i need to say about this Engstrom/Cessaro combo is that the bass attained IS something that not many will be able to understand or like. It is low, controlled and lacks that "woofiness". Im probably out of my league by saying this but i think the Q factor/quotient of the Brahms has been set low. This is related to the circuitry, damping and compliance. This is also influenced by the movement of the drivers and resonance within the horns (material, design etc) i.e. the compliance of these parts. All a bit complicated for the thing placed between my ears... I hope I'm getting this right. (Maybe Ralph and Lars/Timo can help me out here). Hence a short harmonic decaying bass ending at 30s-1 (Hz). And this is exactly what the Engstrom is all about. Hence the coherence of this couple. So, this explains the comments I hear about Cessaro's bass. Its not the lack of it, its the lack of the "woofiness" that i have trained my ear over the years to accept as the gold standard. This is one of the connoisseur presentations of music that PT has been able to present to us all. Absolutely bliss... Kudos!
Whats next? My pension is far from sight but while my wife was brushing her teeth this morning i heard her gargle something that sounded like Rach.
Let the music play..
Khairul
Only for AV setups.. The Rach subwoofer is the most logical addition to complete the Cessaro family. Coming in at a whopping 180kg and a 66 cm2 footprint, its no slouch. This dual chamber, front ported, active behemoth is very intimidating. Set at a crossover of 55Hz, a slope of -18dB and 0 phase, I was set to go. I used the subsonic mode on. It will definitely increase the power requirements of the built-in amplifier and increase the noise level. But ill tell you why i use it later. The volume level was experimented with a starting point of 0 dB and increased incrementally +1dB on the fly. When the music starts to collapse or is overwhelmed by the base, then turn down the volume by 1 dB to the most appropriate value. For the Lars type II, i have been living with +7dB Rach volume, very comfortably. I positioned the Rach's 16" drivers in line with the 16" drivers of the Brahms to avoid any delay.
The Rach has definitely added more bass from where the Brahms rolled off. But how much bass can one hear? Its not a matter of what we can hear and it's not all about bass. The Rach definitely produces music to levels which are not audible. This produces sonic spatial reflections. By turning on the subsonic button, it would also produce subsonic spatial reflections. We have very little spatial reflections in a room which is not treated. This is increased probably by 2-3 fold with acoustic room treatment. In a well designed concert hall, the spatial reflections will increase by 30 fold. The more reflection points produced in a space, the more 3 dimensionality we will get over the total frequency bandwidth. That is why I think a subwoofer, the Rach in this case is the missing link for speaker systems. Depth, dimensionality, timbre, focus, transparency throughout the whole bandwidth improves by a factor of 2 to 3. Sure there are other factors that can be brought into the equation such as stereo Rachs, active or passive, ported or not, etc etc.
A-B comparison only replicated the feeling when Miguel unplugged the Tripoint grounding at the 2017 AE show. Believe me, once plugged in, you cannot live without it. I know I can't.
"bring on the music"
KFM