I would appreciate specific guidance from this tremendous and discerning group of audiophiles. I own Zanden DAC and am seriously contemplating Vekian Opus this summer.
How is the Vekian Opus on presenting digital as life-like in the air/voice/treble? I have heard original Vekian and still felt Zanden won when comparing live recordings...just as Linnman once wrote. I did not appreciate his words until i did a careful comparison myself. Vekian was exceptional digital playback...exceptional and better than Scarlatti, Emm cdsa, Esoteric X-01SE, Wadia s7i, Weiss Medea, Meridian 808i.2 (to my ears). But Zanden made you forget digital/analogue and focus on the performance itself...that is a rare thing.
How does Vekian Opus compare in this regard to original Vekian...specifically in air/treble/midrange sauveness, beauty? Thanks for any advice!
Opus simply delivers more in all fronts compared to Vekian signature. I know this is an answer which is trivially expected for a comparison between two products of the same brand. First of all, it would not make the Vekian signature totally not 'listenable' as afterall, the original Vekian is already sitting very high among all other DACs in the market. Opus enriches the 'density' and 'coherence' without compromising on the speed of processing and has further enhanced on the noise control thus throwing out a very colorful and steady tonal picture. The overall sounding is more expressive and organic thus closer to analog playback to my ears. The recently announced ABC clock by Stahl Tek is perhaps the ultimate step to remove the digital noise induced by the internal clock, I have listened to it in AE showroom and in another audiophile's system last night.
It really depends how do you intrepret musicality. I think there is one point about Zanden that I would like to highlight. Zanden is actually a very neutral digital playback system. The musicality does not come from any coloration of any frequency band. It comes from its ability to depict the acoustics interaction between performers/instrucments and the recording venue. That is what makes it sound lively. From this perspective, I still rank Zanden 2000p/5000s as one of the finest digital playback ever created even at the age of 24bits/XXXXhz.
As far as the Opus is concerned, it is able to recreate tremendous tonal resolution of anything that is in the musical scene. Energy is vibrant especially in the bottom end. Staging is grand and there is see-thru quality in the z-axis with great imaging. It is more precise in the depiction of everything. Tonal density is as intense as it can be. With the Opus, the musicality stems from precision and resolution. If these attributes are right, it can't be too wrong on the musicality part.
There is always a balance between Hi Fidelity and Musicality. They are NOT mutually exclusive. The balance actually depends on your mind. Afterall, we can just focus on musicality after spending so much on this hobby. A stereo imaging must be there or else what's the point of moving from mono to stereo in the 60s? I can equally acheive strong musicality from my ipod, right?
If the hi fidelity part is done right, I can't really say it is equivalent to amusical. At the end of the day, it depends on how you listen. And everybody listens differently.
Residing at the Tidal camp enables me to understand so much about the decade long argument of tube versus solid state, musicality verus analytical etc.
Ultimately it depends on how you comprehend the sound to your preference.
Many thanks for your time and insights...very helpful. Reviewing my 'notes' on both digital systems:
Zanden
- On scale of 1-100 of sterile (1) to too golden (100), Zanden is maybe 51-52...exceptionally neutral, but just the slightest touch that helps bring life...probably the nature of a tube output
- Remarkably analogue-like presentation...not forced at all, like much digital which (like hi-res television) can 'force you' to appreciate detail, microdynamics
- Exceptionally 'nuanced' player which presents the ebb and flow of rhythm, point and counterpoint in music
- Not strongest dynamics but microdynamics and nuances always help create an interesting tapestry of any kind of music
- enormous dynamic swings with extremely complex passages...perhaps not its strength as it does not 'sort out the details' as easily as Stahl-Tek
- Bottom line? caring about SACD, CD, files...and you end up listening to the performers play music
Stahl-Tek (original)
- lower noise floor and greater dynamic capability
- also does not 'force you' to listen...remarkably smooth but you need the Stahl-Tek transport to do this...not just any transport
- far greater ability to handle complex passages with ease...allowing every element of an orchestra to be heard, focused on...and then you can go back to focusing on the over all piece...and go back and forth with ease
- with greater detail...i can see why people compare it to analogue so often!
- So you listen to the music differently as Raymond says...Zanden more ebb and flow of music which is pure tonally, with 'enough detail' but the flow is the magic with the point/counterpoint in microrhythms and nuances of rhythm being much of the magic
- Whereas with Stahl-Tek enjoyment is by being able to enjoy the various elements of the music at once (because it is effortless and not forced)...but also listening to individual instruments of the music so easily (due to extraordinary resolution with pure tonal balance...not etched) that you can enjoy the music by 'studying it' and how the individual instruments are each beautiful but also how they combine to make the music so beautifully. (Not as easy to do with Zanden, particularly on complex passages)
Conclusion
- Based on Marvel's description, it does sound like Opus might actually reach into the Zanden space of the ebb/flow organic feel which is the domain where Zanden has been the leader for over 8 years.
Thank you for guiding me and sharing...hope to be able to make a decision in a few weeks. Kind regards.
One important factor to consider is what CDT you use. With the Vekian combo even switching the connection from I2S to AES/EBU will lose you much of the magic (at least in my system). Not sure you can simply compare the DACs as standalone entities because the synergies with the CDT are enormous (through I2S)
Thank you as well. Yes, i totally agree. The i2s interface for both Stahl-Tek and Zanden is critical, as is the dedicated Transport. I have spoken with someone who has done an experiment on several SOTA digital DACS...and in every case, i he found the dedicated transport worked best. In some respect, few surprises there.
As for Stahl-Tek, yes, I even sense the PS Audio Perfect Wave Transport II (which is specifically designed to go i2s into the Stahl-Tek) is different from the STahl-Tek Transport...a little bit more 'forceful/listen to the details' vs the extremely relaxed, effortless presentation of the Stahl-Tek transport...extremely subtle but there.
One wild card I would recommend you to do some research is NeoDio....I am still owning a transport/DAC combo running side by side with Opus combo....extremely competitive and to certain attributes, outperform the Vekian Signature combo before the upgrade to Opus. It does not belongs to the camp of depicting musicality in the form of dimensionality, ultra resolution and transparency. It is more about the tempo, rhythm and tonal density creating musical notes like firework bursting from spherically out from a pin point one after the other...Again, at this level, mating with the transport of the same brand yields the maximum synergistic effect the designer wants to achieve at the outset. I tried cross connecting Vekian and Neodio combo but never get a better result.
Thanks for sharing your great experience! I have read many good things about Neodio here and elsewhere. You have an amazing setup without doubt! I hope to speak with AE soon and audition these units in more detail soon as well. I will be sure to post. Until then, enjoy your system!
I have been using it for 3 weeks, ABC creates an atmosphere inside me which brings a heartening sense of warmth (contrasting to the usual coldness of CD playback). To me, it seems to carry a different meaning for CD playback, but what is it exactly, I don't know, only when I do the ABAB comparison with and without it, I can then 're-awaken' on the magic this tiny box produces...
I thought I could bring this ABC to a CAS user for him to try on his system but unfortunately it only support HDMI output which is fairly unique to the Vekian DAC. Had it had a USB output, I believe more can benefit from it....
Comments
How is the Vekian Opus on presenting digital as life-like in the air/voice/treble? I have heard original Vekian and still felt Zanden won when comparing live recordings...just as Linnman once wrote. I did not appreciate his words until i did a careful comparison myself. Vekian was exceptional digital playback...exceptional and better than Scarlatti, Emm cdsa, Esoteric X-01SE, Wadia s7i, Weiss Medea, Meridian 808i.2 (to my ears). But Zanden made you forget digital/analogue and focus on the performance itself...that is a rare thing.
How does Vekian Opus compare in this regard to original Vekian...specifically in air/treble/midrange sauveness, beauty? Thanks for any advice!
Opus simply delivers more in all fronts compared to Vekian signature. I know this is an answer which is trivially expected for a comparison between two products of the same brand. First of all, it would not make the Vekian signature totally not 'listenable' as afterall, the original Vekian is already sitting very high among all other DACs in the market. Opus enriches the 'density' and 'coherence' without compromising on the speed of processing and has further enhanced on the noise control thus throwing out a very colorful and steady tonal picture. The overall sounding is more expressive and organic thus closer to analog playback to my ears. The recently announced ABC clock by Stahl Tek is perhaps the ultimate step to remove the digital noise induced by the internal clock, I have listened to it in AE showroom and in another audiophile's system last night.
Marvel
It really depends how do you intrepret musicality. I think there is one point about Zanden that I would like to highlight. Zanden is actually a very neutral digital playback system. The musicality does not come from any coloration of any frequency band. It comes from its ability to depict the acoustics interaction between performers/instrucments and the recording venue. That is what makes it sound lively. From this perspective, I still rank Zanden 2000p/5000s as one of the finest digital playback ever created even at the age of 24bits/XXXXhz.
As far as the Opus is concerned, it is able to recreate tremendous tonal resolution of anything that is in the musical scene. Energy is vibrant especially in the bottom end. Staging is grand and there is see-thru quality in the z-axis with great imaging. It is more precise in the depiction of everything. Tonal density is as intense as it can be. With the Opus, the musicality stems from precision and resolution. If these attributes are right, it can't be too wrong on the musicality part.
There is always a balance between Hi Fidelity and Musicality. They are NOT mutually exclusive. The balance actually depends on your mind. Afterall, we can just focus on musicality after spending so much on this hobby. A stereo imaging must be there or else what's the point of moving from mono to stereo in the 60s? I can equally acheive strong musicality from my ipod, right?
If the hi fidelity part is done right, I can't really say it is equivalent to amusical. At the end of the day, it depends on how you listen. And everybody listens differently.
Residing at the Tidal camp enables me to understand so much about the decade long argument of tube versus solid state, musicality verus analytical etc.
Ultimately it depends on how you comprehend the sound to your preference.
Many thanks for your time and insights...very helpful. Reviewing my 'notes' on both digital systems:
Zanden
- On scale of 1-100 of sterile (1) to too golden (100), Zanden is maybe 51-52...exceptionally neutral, but just the slightest touch that helps bring life...probably the nature of a tube output
- Remarkably analogue-like presentation...not forced at all, like much digital which (like hi-res television) can 'force you' to appreciate detail, microdynamics
- Exceptionally 'nuanced' player which presents the ebb and flow of rhythm, point and counterpoint in music
- Not strongest dynamics but microdynamics and nuances always help create an interesting tapestry of any kind of music
- enormous dynamic swings with extremely complex passages...perhaps not its strength as it does not 'sort out the details' as easily as Stahl-Tek
- Bottom line? caring about SACD, CD, files...and you end up listening to the performers play music
Stahl-Tek (original)
- lower noise floor and greater dynamic capability
- also does not 'force you' to listen...remarkably smooth but you need the Stahl-Tek transport to do this...not just any transport
- far greater ability to handle complex passages with ease...allowing every element of an orchestra to be heard, focused on...and then you can go back to focusing on the over all piece...and go back and forth with ease
- with greater detail...i can see why people compare it to analogue so often!
- So you listen to the music differently as Raymond says...Zanden more ebb and flow of music which is pure tonally, with 'enough detail' but the flow is the magic with the point/counterpoint in microrhythms and nuances of rhythm being much of the magic
- Whereas with Stahl-Tek enjoyment is by being able to enjoy the various elements of the music at once (because it is effortless and not forced)...but also listening to individual instruments of the music so easily (due to extraordinary resolution with pure tonal balance...not etched) that you can enjoy the music by 'studying it' and how the individual instruments are each beautiful but also how they combine to make the music so beautifully. (Not as easy to do with Zanden, particularly on complex passages)
Conclusion
- Based on Marvel's description, it does sound like Opus might actually reach into the Zanden space of the ebb/flow organic feel which is the domain where Zanden has been the leader for over 8 years.
Thank you for guiding me and sharing...hope to be able to make a decision in a few weeks. Kind regards.
Thank you as well. Yes, i totally agree. The i2s interface for both Stahl-Tek and Zanden is critical, as is the dedicated Transport. I have spoken with someone who has done an experiment on several SOTA digital DACS...and in every case, i he found the dedicated transport worked best. In some respect, few surprises there.
As for Stahl-Tek, yes, I even sense the PS Audio Perfect Wave Transport II (which is specifically designed to go i2s into the Stahl-Tek) is different from the STahl-Tek Transport...a little bit more 'forceful/listen to the details' vs the extremely relaxed, effortless presentation of the Stahl-Tek transport...extremely subtle but there.
Thanks again for pointing this out.
One wild card I would recommend you to do some research is NeoDio....I am still owning a transport/DAC combo running side by side with Opus combo....extremely competitive and to certain attributes, outperform the Vekian Signature combo before the upgrade to Opus. It does not belongs to the camp of depicting musicality in the form of dimensionality, ultra resolution and transparency. It is more about the tempo, rhythm and tonal density creating musical notes like firework bursting from spherically out from a pin point one after the other...Again, at this level, mating with the transport of the same brand yields the maximum synergistic effect the designer wants to achieve at the outset. I tried cross connecting Vekian and Neodio combo but never get a better result.
Marvel
Thanks for sharing your great experience! I have read many good things about Neodio here and elsewhere. You have an amazing setup without doubt! I hope to speak with AE soon and audition these units in more detail soon as well. I will be sure to post. Until then, enjoy your system!
I have been using it for 3 weeks, ABC creates an atmosphere inside me which brings a heartening sense of warmth (contrasting to the usual coldness of CD playback). To me, it seems to carry a different meaning for CD playback, but what is it exactly, I don't know, only when I do the ABAB comparison with and without it, I can then 're-awaken' on the magic this tiny box produces...
I thought I could bring this ABC to a CAS user for him to try on his system but unfortunately it only support HDMI output which is fairly unique to the Vekian DAC. Had it had a USB output, I believe more can benefit from it....
Marvel