I am delighted to see PT/Marvel helping you on site. They are great people. PT can explain every single action with logic. He is always spot on. Think about it, there are so many variables in the system. How does he know which one to solve to bring your system back to balance? That's experience. I am glad to see Marvel help you to reposition the speakers as I remembered Mr.Zanden in once article posted long time ago urged him to explore more on speaker positioning.
It sounded exciting last night. Sometimes, the fun part of audio comes from sharing and constructive criticism.
Have you ever thought of changing the Kharma to either Tidal or Cessaro? They are great speakers.
First of all, thank Studiorgrey for the nice dinner treat in a Thai restaurant.
This is also a great learning experience for me to work together with PT and Studiogrey in further finetuning his system. My initial impression on the system is similar to PT and upon each and every change that we have made, we both felt some slight improvements but not to the extent to enable us to regain the '833' feel that we have experienced in Charles' and DSo's place. Until PT spotted out that the speaker connection in the 833 should better be on 8ohm instead of 4ohm. This dramatically restored the fame of 833 although I am still not sure how much has been sucked by the damped cabinet of the Kharma on the bass compartment.
Because of such skepticism on some bass energy being drained away, I thought moving the speakers a bit closer to each other and reduce the toe in angle may yield a better sound stage and better energy dispersion. That is why I proposed to move the speakers. Frankly I am not good in doing so and as a result, I think last night's positioning is just preliminary requiring further fine tuning by Studiogrey.
The last 'icing on the cake' was to reposition some of the resonators in the room to tame down the mid high to high in order to achieve a better integration with the bass.
My take away from last night's experience is on the overall integration and balance of the sound produced should be the 'starting' and 'ending' point for any system fine tuning instead of focusing on a particular frequency range because one can put all the effort in making different instruments and different frequency ranges shine out from each other, in the end, they all sing in staggered and disjoint manner. Studiogrey's case is defnitely not in this category but the inherent characteristics of the speaker makes the mid to high shines out from the bass draw us to work towards a more integrated and balanced performance rather than trying to squeeze out more 'bass' from the system.
Thanks again for Studiogrey's openness in accommodating the changes that we have made and I hope he won't laugh at me on being 'those who are able to cure the others cannot cure themselves' in a Chinese idiomatic expression.
Marvel, why studiogrey still stick with the Kharma speaker? I have no experience with Kharma. What so special about it? I hate diamond tweeter as they call too much attention to themselves. Is this the problem of studiogrey? If yes, you have to adjust everything before the speakers to tame inherent imbalances. Not a smart move, isn't it? Why not get a pair of your German horn?
Yesterday night I housed back a pair gold dragon to PR-T1 improved the bass quality, it's work.
The CFO approved the new position of my speaker, the sound stage much depth and width then before. Thank a lot!
What I have to pay is A. Lange 1815.
Voy, I also love the Cassaro but due to the bad economy, I must save some money right now. Cassaro is great speaker.
I personally also believe the Kharma sucks up a lot of the energy from 833 especially on the bass compartment. Of course, this can only be proved by Studiogrey visiting more often to Charles and DSo's places in order to find out more on the 833 he has. I am sure Studiogrey, like me, has his own constraints in upgrading the speakers so it is better to leave it to him to time the event whilst we as fellow comrades, keep on igniting and blowing up the fire for him... If I were Studiogrey, I would go for Sunray which has a small footprint, good for tube amps.....Studiogrey, go go go....
I dare not traning any one up. There are thousand audio philosophies around. I can see why you guys are so keen to push studiogrey to change speakers. But if the listener's experience is only at the level of Kharma, I don't see any logical reason to venture into something more advance. He may exactly like the shortcoming of the Kharma - the diamond tweeter, and the subduded bass response etc. Over time, he will learn. Just let him walk more circles.
It is better for him to appreciate the pros and cons of the Kharma before moving up. I heard that PT managed the Kharma pretty well in his tiny room. Why? Given your close relationship with PT, I presume you heard the Kharma singing quite ok. I remembered you actually wrote a piece about the last dance with Kharma.
Have you utilized the Preos well in your system? Why PT is not using the Preos with his horn?
Comments
昨晚PT同Marvel到來幫助很多.在只花費很小(glasshoper)的情況下將系统來個大修正.
再三多謝AE forum兄弟助拳.
I am delighted to see PT/Marvel helping you on site. They are great people. PT can explain every single action with logic. He is always spot on. Think about it, there are so many variables in the system. How does he know which one to solve to bring your system back to balance? That's experience. I am glad to see Marvel help you to reposition the speakers as I remembered Mr.Zanden in once article posted long time ago urged him to explore more on speaker positioning.
It sounded exciting last night. Sometimes, the fun part of audio comes from sharing and constructive criticism.
Have you ever thought of changing the Kharma to either Tidal or Cessaro? They are great speakers.
This is also a great learning experience for me to work together with PT and Studiogrey in further finetuning his system. My initial impression on the system is similar to PT and upon each and every change that we have made, we both felt some slight improvements but not to the extent to enable us to regain the '833' feel that we have experienced in Charles' and DSo's place. Until PT spotted out that the speaker connection in the 833 should better be on 8ohm instead of 4ohm. This dramatically restored the fame of 833 although I am still not sure how much has been sucked by the damped cabinet of the Kharma on the bass compartment.
Because of such skepticism on some bass energy being drained away, I thought moving the speakers a bit closer to each other and reduce the toe in angle may yield a better sound stage and better energy dispersion. That is why I proposed to move the speakers. Frankly I am not good in doing so and as a result, I think last night's positioning is just preliminary requiring further fine tuning by Studiogrey.
The last 'icing on the cake' was to reposition some of the resonators in the room to tame down the mid high to high in order to achieve a better integration with the bass.
My take away from last night's experience is on the overall integration and balance of the sound produced should be the 'starting' and 'ending' point for any system fine tuning instead of focusing on a particular frequency range because one can put all the effort in making different instruments and different frequency ranges shine out from each other, in the end, they all sing in staggered and disjoint manner. Studiogrey's case is defnitely not in this category but the inherent characteristics of the speaker makes the mid to high shines out from the bass draw us to work towards a more integrated and balanced performance rather than trying to squeeze out more 'bass' from the system.
Thanks again for Studiogrey's openness in accommodating the changes that we have made and I hope he won't laugh at me on being 'those who are able to cure the others cannot cure themselves' in a Chinese idiomatic expression.
Marvel
只希望CFO網放一面比佢在新位落地生根.
To get the approval by your CFO, submit your floor plan with an AP or Patek Philippe...see if it works.
Marvel
The CFO approved the new position of my speaker, the sound stage much depth and width then before. Thank a lot!
What I have to pay is A. Lange 1815.
Voy, I also love the Cassaro but due to the bad economy, I must save some money right now. Cassaro is great speaker.
I personally also believe the Kharma sucks up a lot of the energy from 833 especially on the bass compartment. Of course, this can only be proved by Studiogrey visiting more often to Charles and DSo's places in order to find out more on the 833 he has. I am sure Studiogrey, like me, has his own constraints in upgrading the speakers so it is better to leave it to him to time the event whilst we as fellow comrades, keep on igniting and blowing up the fire for him... If I were Studiogrey, I would go for Sunray which has a small footprint, good for tube amps.....Studiogrey, go go go....
Marvel
What were the tubes before inside the PR-T1?
Jeff
It is better for him to appreciate the pros and cons of the Kharma before moving up. I heard that PT managed the Kharma pretty well in his tiny room. Why? Given your close relationship with PT, I presume you heard the Kharma singing quite ok. I remembered you actually wrote a piece about the last dance with Kharma.
Have you utilized the Preos well in your system? Why PT is not using the Preos with his horn?