Your coverage of Munich show is indeed unique. The French horn couldn't be that pure without the Lars amplifier, probably the most expensive 300B amplifier ever made. It's hard to get the bass in synch when a pair of 32 inch is doing the bass job. I read the 6moon coverage on this as well.
What's your impression of the Audionec room? I'd like to listen to your opinion. This year, the French has more interesting stuff than the others.
Thanks for the tip of setting up the arm, I got what you meant. The result is impressive musicality.
I have already placed the order for the Virtu arm with JLam. I really looking forward to it as I understand the compromises of the Grandezza arm will be completely eliminated.
Peter of Da Vinci follow the old school's of arm setting. Da Vinci is basically re-interpretating the old school with modern know-how. I agree the suggested method is much better than conventional method. But you know, it is not easy for the new generation to understand who strictly follow the books.
It has also do deal with the physical properties of the Grandezza arm. This arm tends to do well with less heavy cartridge. I suspect the effective mass of the arm-tube is lighter at the cartridge end. Assuming the step up ratio is correct at the phono's end, you need higher force to improve the tracking stability but you can't just set the tracking force higher because it suppresses the high frequencies. As a result, you need to set the arm vertically higher right at the beginning at the armbase to create a natural sliding force.
This is my theory, and could be wrong. But the result is in the music.
Marvel, is it true you already sold the grandezza in anticipating the arrival of this arm? That's what Jlam said to me. You have no arms for the Gabriel now?
Jeff, you are correct, I was told by PT that Virtu arm will come forth so it is time to say goodbye to Grandezza but timing wise, I am not in a perfect stateto match the departure and arrival time....
I have been reading discussions on audioexotics forum for quite a while, but now, after reading of the report of High End in Munich I have decided to share my considerations. I have treated rooms in Munich already for 5 years and perfectly know their problematic. Nobody, who were there would argue, that they are not perfect. The problem of the rooms is, that certain surfaces in empty room are treated completely, while another left completely untreated. Look, there is a carpet on the floor, and special acoustic ceiling installed, which both kill A LOT of energy in high frequency. From the other point you have huge windows in front, which brings a lot of nasty reflections and 2 perfect parralel walls which are responsible for flatter echoes. You can notice it easily when you start clutching hands in empty room. In general without any treatment, the rooms have reverberation time of nearly 3 seconds, which is inacceptable for music reproduction. So they have to be treated. Important is, that one should be very carefull with adding absorbtion, because floor and ceiling have enough of it. So we have used only 8 absorption banners, which means only 7 m2 for 74 m2 room which is really not much. The rest are diffusors and redirectors, which don't kill energy. This constellation allowed us to get rid of parallel walls and flatter echoes.
The rest were banners, which are not the best stuff for acoustic treatment, but just have to be there because it is an exhibition and not a private room. In fact in my studio I use the same treatment elements, but the room sounds much more vivid, just because I have wooden floor and beton ceiling. There is a carpet on the floor in front of speakers which is a must and also several clouds on the ceiling which prevent unwanted reflections. Every surface in the room have to be treated, but it should never be treated completely with the same material as it is done in Munich. From the other point, if Munich rooms would not have this treatment, then the sound would be really awfull, because most of exhibitors just do no treat their rooms at all! So leaving the walls untreated helps to get more vivid sound because of lot of reflections, which in turn results in poor soundstage and imaging.
Couple of years ago one acoustic company decided to substitite acoustic panels in the ceiling with reflecting panels. It made the sound much more vivid indeed, but it was really a lot of work. We'll see, perhaps I will install some reflectors on the ceiling next year.
Now some words about setups. There were really a lot of work behind them. We came on Monday and had 2 days for the installation. And we have used this 2 days from morning to evening! I was very happy with our "small" setup for less than 50K Euros which worked much better as setups in 2 other rooms, featuring bigger TIDAL speakers. Of course Piano Cera is too small for 74m2 room, but we have showed, that one can get excellent results even in that big room. The components of the setup were chosen very carefully and they played together for several weeks before the show. In case of Constellation and T1 it was a kind of "blind date", which did not resulted in love from the first glance. One just expect much more from such setup. I don't mention Thiel & Partner room, featuring Contriva DiaCera, which was the biggest dissapointment for me. It was not a good idea to place big Consensus speakers in line with Contriva and play them in turn in nearly completely untreated room swapping amps as well. In case of Contriva you could at least stay in the room, while in case of Consensus I just had to run away closing my ears, because I was afraid they will be damaged. Well, here are my personal conclusions after the show. First - once again I have got approval, that TIDAL builds not only fantastic speakers, but also damn good electronics. Second - trying to pair expensive stuff short before the show - is not a good idea.
And posessing of expensive components is not a warranty for a good sound. Third, reasonably priced system with carefully selected components in proper acoustic environment can easily outperform mega-bucks system. Well, nothing really new, but it is nice to get yet another approval, that you are on the right way.
Anyway, thank you for visiting our booth and see you next year ! Enjoy your setups !
Comments
Your coverage of Munich show is indeed unique. The French horn couldn't be that pure without the Lars amplifier, probably the most expensive 300B amplifier ever made. It's hard to get the bass in synch when a pair of 32 inch is doing the bass job. I read the 6moon coverage on this as well.
What's your impression of the Audionec room? I'd like to listen to your opinion. This year, the French has more interesting stuff than the others.
Thanks for the tip of setting up the arm, I got what you meant. The result is impressive musicality.
I have already placed the order for the Virtu arm with JLam. I really looking forward to it as I understand the compromises of the Grandezza arm will be completely eliminated.
Ray
Peter of Da Vinci follow the old school's of arm setting. Da Vinci is basically re-interpretating the old school with modern know-how. I agree the suggested method is much better than conventional method. But you know, it is not easy for the new generation to understand who strictly follow the books.
It has also do deal with the physical properties of the Grandezza arm. This arm tends to do well with less heavy cartridge. I suspect the effective mass of the arm-tube is lighter at the cartridge end. Assuming the step up ratio is correct at the phono's end, you need higher force to improve the tracking stability but you can't just set the tracking force higher because it suppresses the high frequencies. As a result, you need to set the arm vertically higher right at the beginning at the armbase to create a natural sliding force.
This is my theory, and could be wrong. But the result is in the music.
The rest were banners, which are not the best stuff for acoustic treatment, but just have to be there because it is an exhibition and not a private room. In fact in my studio I use the same treatment elements, but the room sounds much more vivid, just because I have wooden floor and beton ceiling. There is a carpet on the floor in front of speakers which is a must and also several clouds on the ceiling which prevent unwanted reflections. Every surface in the room have to be treated, but it should never be treated completely with the same material as it is done in Munich. From the other point, if Munich rooms would not have this treatment, then the sound would be really awfull, because most of exhibitors just do no treat their rooms at all! So leaving the walls untreated helps to get more vivid sound because of lot of reflections, which in turn results in poor soundstage and imaging.
Couple of years ago one acoustic company decided to substitite acoustic panels in the ceiling with reflecting panels. It made the sound much more vivid indeed, but it was really a lot of work. We'll see, perhaps I will install some reflectors on the ceiling next year.
Now some words about setups. There were really a lot of work behind them. We came on Monday and had 2 days for the installation. And we have used this 2 days from morning to evening! I was very happy with our "small" setup for less than 50K Euros which worked much better as setups in 2 other rooms, featuring bigger TIDAL speakers. Of course Piano Cera is too small for 74m2 room, but we have showed, that one can get excellent results even in that big room. The components of the setup were chosen very carefully and they played together for several weeks before the show. In case of Constellation and T1 it was a kind of "blind date", which did not resulted in love from the first glance. One just expect much more from such setup. I don't mention Thiel & Partner room, featuring Contriva DiaCera, which was the biggest dissapointment for me. It was not a good idea to place big Consensus speakers in line with Contriva and play them in turn in nearly completely untreated room swapping amps as well. In case of Contriva you could at least stay in the room, while in case of Consensus I just had to run away closing my ears, because I was afraid they will be damaged. Well, here are my personal conclusions after the show. First - once again I have got approval, that TIDAL builds not only fantastic speakers, but also damn good electronics. Second - trying to pair expensive stuff short before the show - is not a good idea.
And posessing of expensive components is not a warranty for a good sound. Third, reasonably priced system with carefully selected components in proper acoustic environment can easily outperform mega-bucks system. Well, nothing really new, but it is nice to get yet another approval, that you are on the right way.
Anyway, thank you for visiting our booth and see you next year ! Enjoy your setups !